Beatles Please Please Me Album Stereo Mix- MFSL Version

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by stereoguy, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    A PPM timeline (with a few comments)...

    Sept 11 1962 - (recorded to mono only)

    Love Me Do (alternate version to single)
    PS I Love You

    Nov 26 1962 - (recorded to twin-track and mono)
    Please Please Me
    Ask Me Why

    - (recorded to mono only??)
    Please Please Me (harmonica S/I)

    - mono 'mixes' of above, or just editing of final delta mono tapes? I think likely the latter
    - no stereo mixes - my personal feeling is that the 'back-up' twin-tracks were probably not even touched... yet, and GM was only working with the mono tapes


    Feb 11 1963 - (recorded to twin-track and mono)

    There's A Place
    I Saw Her Standing There
    A Taste Of Honey
    Do You Want To Know A Secret
    A Taste Of Honey (vocal S/I)
    Do You Want To Know A Secret (vocal S/I)
    There's A Place (harmonica S/I)
    I Saw Her Standing There (handclaps S/I)
    Misery
    Anna
    Boys
    Chains
    Baby It's You
    Twist And Shout

    Feb 20 1963 - (recorded to twin-track ?and mono?)
    Misery (George Martin piano S/I)
    Baby It's You (George Martin celeste S/I)


    Feb 25 1963 - (recorded to twin-track and mono, unless stated otherwise)
    'MIXING' (copying with EQ and compression and fades) from twin-track tapes above

    Anna
    Boys
    Chains
    Misery (stereo only)
    Baby It's You (stereo only)
    Do You Want To Know A Secret
    There's A Place
    Twist And Shout
    I Saw Her Standing There (with intro edited on from Take 9)
    A Taste Of Honey
    Please Please Me (stereo only - edit of 3 'new' takes, which overlaid the harmonica part - taken from the mono master!- over an alternate twin-track take from Nov 26)
    Misery (mono only)
    Baby It's You (mono only)
    Ask Me Why
    Love Me Do (stereo only - mock stereo from mono master)
    PS I Love You (stereo only - mock stereo from mono master)

    - twin-track masters from this session used as stereo LP masters, delta mono masters used as mono LP masters
    - mono 'mixes' of Please Please Me, PS I Love You and Love Me Do as previously prepared were used for the mono LP
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  2. Ben Sinise

    Ben Sinise Forum Reticent

    Location:
    Sydney
    No, look at those dates again.

    November 1963 was for the German With The Beatles LP.
    That was the first Beatles UK studio album released there.
    The issue dates I have are 12th Nov '63 for the export editions and 12th Dec '63 for the German domestic copies.
    Obviously it sold well so they decided to market The Beatles' first UK album (PPM) soon after.
    Die Beatles was released in Germany on the 6th Feb 1964, almost a year later than the UK.

    So the point I'm highlighting is how could Electrola have received copies of the raw twin-track work tapes (either in '64 or even later in '66) when these were destroyed once the final mix masters were completed in 1963 as George Martin has personally confirmed?

    Correct, the -1/-1 cut from '64 is lifeless, it's the -2/-2 matrix which was cut in mid '66 at the earliest that you want.

    Ever noticed how all the earlier first press Beatles LPs released in Germany are reported as dull or lifeless, not just the first press of Die Beatles?
    It's not until the first press of Revolver in 1966 that they are reported as rivalling or bettering their UK counterparts.
    So why the big change in sound?
    It's down to how the records were cut ie: it's all in the mastering.
    Neumann introduced the VMS66 lathe with VG66 amplifier rack with 100w per channel of fast solid state power guiding the cutting heads that year (the 66 model numbers refer to the first year of manufacture)
    In comparison Abbey Road was using a Scully/Westrex system powered by modified Leak 25w per channel valve amps (much to the chagrin of their cutting engineers of the time) so is it any wonder there is more drive and energy in the German Die Beatles reissue, which was most likely cut from the very same 1964 tape.

    Likewise, if you compare a UK first press stereo PPM with a UK -4/-4 matrix copy which was cut on the improved 1970's version Neumann system you'll notice the same changes in sound, taking it much closer to the sonics of Die Beatles, albeit a touch more polite as the UK engineers in those days never pushed the limits as far as the German cutters did, probably due to the technical constraints imposed by Abbey Road management.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  3. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Two points:

    1) When did George Martin say anything about destroying session tapes?

    2) At least some twin track session tapes weren't destroyed until 1966, according to John Barrett.

    Now, I'm not arguing for a second that Germany got anything other than a copy of the prexisting stereo master, nor that some sort of intermediate tape existed. But the session tapes weren't necessarily gone already.

    As far as the sound goes, my feeling is aesthetics, namely a reduction in harsh upper midrange frequencies, had more to do with the sound of the German pressings than the equipment used.
     
  4. Ben Sinise

    Ben Sinise Forum Reticent

    Location:
    Sydney
    It's a quote from my post #259.
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    That's not a quote from George Martin, nor is it correct. Some of the twin-track session tapes exist to this day. Certainly not all of them, but some do.
     
  6. Ben Sinise

    Ben Sinise Forum Reticent

    Location:
    Sydney
    It's from a quote in that post, never meant to infer it was directly quoted from George Martin.

    "After 1963 they started saving everything."
    Are there any mixed twin-tracks that survived from the PPM sessions beyond 1963?
     
  7. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Not sure what exactly you mean by 'mixed', but E48875 and E48877 are the two reels that circulate on bootleg, and probably the only ones that survived.

    The former is sourced from the twin-track portion of the reel (the stereo and mono recordings would be transferred to one reel). It does not contain any 'finished' recordings, though it does feature the basic master takes of There's A Place and I Saw Her Standing There before S/I's were added, plus outtakes of those songs.

    The latter reel contains the master takes of Do You Want To Know A Secret, A Taste Of Honey, I Saw Her Standing There and There's A Place (all with S/I's), along with outtakes of those songs and Misery. The bootleggers only accessed the delta mono portion of this tape though. Evidence that the twin-track portion still survives came with the release of the official '1963 Bootleg' that included some of the songs in stereo. Again though, nothing from the uncirculating reels was included on this release.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  8. DEC

    DEC New Member

    Location:
    Portland
    If you know that could you tell us what they used for the MFSL copies??,,, one other thing does anyone know what brand of tape machines are used for one studio to another ,, I mean could there be some big differences in machine quality??
     
  9. DEC

    DEC New Member

    Location:
    Portland
    I can't help myself,, , what is your new stuff that is not as good.. I bought a new yamaha AS 2100 it is good.
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    MFSL used the same tape that was used for the UK LPs and used to make the copy tape for Germany.
     
  11. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    That's a very good analogy. A few years back I used to calibrate TV sets on the side. Half of my clients were not too impressed with the result saying things like "what happened to the vibrancy" or "why are the faces so pale". I would say it is now a more natural picture, just give it a couple of weeks for your own brain to recalibrate, then go back to the previous preset and leave it there if you prefer it. I don't know anyone that did go back.
     
  12. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Magical Mystery Tour as well?
     
  13. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    There wasn't a MMT LP in the UK at the time. The UK tape master was assembled separately from the German master, and contained the final stereo mix of I Am The Walrus; Germany had the early mix also issued in the US.
     
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  14. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Parlophone issued the LP in the UK in the mid to late 1970s. Didn't they use the US master or a copy of it? The last 3 tracks on side 2 are in fake stereo.
     
  15. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    ?

    The UK lp version of Magical Mystery Tour, Parlophone PCTC 255, was issued in 1976, and from all reports is identical to the US stereo version, fake stereo and all.
     
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  16. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    This is click bait for me.
     
  17. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    Then you're gonna love Duophonic For Stereo Phonographs. Worth every penny of the extra dollar charged for it during the '60s. Unique. Awful.
     
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  18. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    The 'UK master' was first released in 1973 on cassette only, and later used for the CD releases. Why they didn't use it in 1976 is anyone's guess.

    US master
    Side One - with alternate stereo mix of IATW, but intro edited
    Side Two - with 3 fake stereo tracks and US stereo mix of SFF

    German master
    Side One - as US version, but with IATW intro intact
    Side Two - all true stereo, with 3 tracks remixed in 1971 (inc SFF)

    UK master
    Side One - compiled from UK EP master, with UK mix of IATW
    Side Two - as German master
     
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  19. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    It actually seems insane -- to request a dupe from abroad that contains some really crap processing on a number of tracks, then for MFSL to compound the insanity by trying to make an 'audiophile' version of the same crap. Maybe it was just easier and the decision makers just thought no one would notice. It has happened before.
     
  20. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    The German stereo IATW is a bit puzzling. I wonder if it came from the US or directly from the UK. When did it first appear?

    EDIT: There was a 1967 German EP - Odeon SMO 39501/2. I wonder which version of IATW is on it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  21. Bill

    Bill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Yep. Insane. I bought the MFSL box upon its release and played them all in order. I couldn't believe that they used the duophonic tracks on MMT. Then I learned of the German version of the album, which I promptly purchased for $8 and substituted the record for that in the MFSL sleeve. Problem solved!
     
  22. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    When you refer to UK master, it is the master that was used for the 1987 and 2009 CDs not the 1976 LP?
     
  23. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Yes, but first utilised for the 1973 UK cassette.
     
  24. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I can't remember if the original German LP (before the 'true stereo' reissue) had the edited intro of IATW or not...

    But I'd guess that the German EP was the same as the UK.
     
  25. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Should have this in a few days. I'll let you know:
    [​IMG]

    Looking at discogs, there is a 1971 and a 1973 German MMT LP with the same matrix for side A: SHZE 327 A1. I don't see an earlier version of the LP.
     
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