Beatles Yesterday And Today mixes

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dinstun, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Dinstun

    Dinstun Active Member

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I have seen this much discussed here before, so here is my attempt to enumerate the Y&T mixes to tables, with much help from http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/index.html. Did I miss anything?

    mono track ............. UK origin ..... mono mix ................... mono mix also on
    ------------------------ --------------- ---------------------------- -----------------------
    Drive My Car ........... Rubber Soul ... from stereo UK Rubber Soul . (fold down of stereo)
    I'm Only Sleeping ...... Revolver ...... mono Y&T (unique?) ......... ?
    Nowhere Man ............ Rubber Soul ... mono UK Rubber Soul ........ 2009 mono Rubber Soul
    Doctor Robert .......... Revolver ...... mono Y&T (unique?) ......... ?
    Yesterday .............. Help! ......... mono UK Help! .............. 2009 mono Help!
    Act Naturally .......... Help! ......... mono UK Help! .............. 2009 mono Help!

    And Your Bird Can Sing . Revolver ...... mono Y&T (unique?) ......... ?
    If I Needed Someone .... Rubber Soul.... mono UK Rubber Soul ........ 2009 mono Rubber Soul
    We Can Work It Out ..... single ........ mono single ................ 2009 mono Mono Masters
    What Goes On ........... Rubber Soul.... mono UK Rubber Soul ........ 2009 mono Rubber Soul
    Day Tripper ............ single......... mono single ................ 2009 mono Mono Masters


    stereo track ........... mock stereo ... stereo mix ............ stereo mix also on .... other mixes
    ------------------------ --------------- ----------------------- ----------------------- --------------
    Drive My Car ........... ............... stereo UK Rubber Soul . 2009 mono Rubber Soul . 1987 stereo
    I'm Only Sleeping ...... from mono Y&T . stereo Y&T (unique?) .. ? ..................... 1966 UK stereo
    Nowhere Man ............ ............... stereo UK Rubber Soul . 2009 mono Rubber Soul . 1987 stereo
    Doctor Robert .......... from mono Y&T . stereo Y&T (unique?) .. ? ..................... 1966 UK stereo
    Yesterday .............. ............... stereo UK Help! ....... 2009 mono Help! ....... 1987 stereo
    Act Naturally .......... ............... stereo UK Help! ....... 2009 mono Help! ....... 1987 stereo

    And Your Bird Can Sing . from mono Y&T . stereo UK Revolver .... 2009 stereo ........... 1966 UK stereo
    If I Needed Someone .... ............... stereo UK Rubber Soul . 2009 mono Rubber Soul . 1987 stereo
    We Can Work It Out ..... ............... stereo Y&T ............ US 1962-1966 vinyl .....1966 UK stereo
    What Goes On ........... ............... stereo UK Rubber Soul . 2009 mono Rubber Soul . 1987 stereo
    Day Tripper ............ ............... stereo Y&T ............ UK/US 1962-1966 vinyl . 1966 UK stereo
  2. Dinstun

    Dinstun Active Member

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Correction: there is only one stereo mix of "And Your Bird Can Sing"...


    stereo track ........... mock stereo ... stereo mix ............ stereo mix also on .... other mixes
    ------------------------ --------------- ----------------------- ----------------------- --------------
    And Your Bird Can Sing . from mono Y&T . stereo UK Revolver .... 2009 stereo Revolver .. ? ............
  3. Dinstun

    Dinstun Active Member

    Location:
    Tennessee
    2014 refresh. This enumerates the mixes found on the 1966 release of Yesterday and Today, LP and tape, and where to find these mixes on CD. Thanks to forum member slane and others for the 2014 research.

    mono track ........... UK origin ... mono mix ............ CD with mono mix .... 2009 mix .....
    ---------------------- ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------
    Drive My Car ......... Rubber Soul . (fold down of stereo) ? ................... 1965 UK mono .
    I'm Only Sleeping .... Revolver .... mono Y&T (unique) ... 2014 Y&T ............ 1966 UK mono .
    Nowhere Man .......... Rubber Soul . mono UK Rubber Soul . 2014 Y&T ............ ..............
    Doctor Robert ........ Revolver .... mono Y&T (unique) ... 2014 Y&T ............ 1966 UK mono .
    Yesterday ............ Help! ....... mono UK Help! ....... 2014 Y&T ............ ..............
    Act Naturally ........ Help! ....... mono UK Help! ....... 2014 Y&T ............ ..............

    And Your Bird Can Sing Revolver .... mono Y&T (unique) ... 2014 Y&T ............ 1966 UK mono .
    If I Needed Someone .. Rubber Soul.. (fold down ?) ....... ? ................... 1965 UK mono .
    We Can Work It Out ... single ...... mono single ......... 2014 Y&T ............ ..............
    What Goes On ......... Rubber Soul.. mono UK Rubber Soul . 2014 Y&T ............ ..............
    Day Tripper .......... single....... mono single ......... 2014 Y&T ............ ..............


    stereo track ......... mock stereo . stereo mix .......... CD with stereo mix... 2009 mix .....
    ---------------------- ------------- --------------------- --------------------- --------------
    Drive My Car ......... ............. stereo UK Rubber Soul 2009 mono Rubber Soul 1987 stereo ..
    I'm Only Sleeping .... from mono Y&T stereo Y&T (unique) . ? ................... 1966 UK stereo
    Nowhere Man .......... ............. stereo UK Rubber Soul 2009 mono Rubber Soul 1987 stereo ..
    Doctor Robert ........ from mono Y&T stereo Y&T (unique) . ? ................... 1966 UK stereo
    Yesterday ............ ............. stereo UK Help! ..... 2009 mono Help! ..... 1987 stereo ..
    Act Naturally ........ ............. stereo UK Help! ..... 2009 mono Help! ..... 1987 stereo ..

    And Your Bird Can Sing from mono Y&T stereo Y&T (unique) . ? ................... 1966 UK stereo
    If I Needed Someone .. ............. stereo UK Rubber Soul 2009 mono Rubber Soul 1987 stereo ..
    We Can Work It Out ... ............. stereo Y&T (unique) . 2014 Y&T ............ 1966 UK stereo
    What Goes On ......... ............. stereo UK Rubber Soul 2009 mono Rubber Soul 1987 stereo ..
    Day Tripper .......... ............. stereo Y&T (unique) . 2014 Y&T ............ 1966 UK stereo



    Hope the columns are mostly self explanatory. The UK origin column shows the original release of the song in the UK, and demonstrates the compilation nature of this album. The mock stereo column indicates the tracks from Revolver which appeared in duophonic stereo on the original LP, but were replaced with true stereo mixes a few weeks later on the tape release YT-2553, and then on later stereo LPs. The 2009 mix column indicates canon mixes found on the 2009 CDs, which are not on the 1966 US releases, but were used for the 2014 CD unless listed as "2014 Y&T" in the CD with mono/stereo mix column.

    There is some debate about some of these, which I will leave to those with better information and gear/ears than myself. The fact that there is debate probably means that those without Superman ears would not hear the difference anyway. The debatable points:
    • Is the mono "If I Needed Someone" the 1965 UK mono, or a fold down of the 1965 UK stereo? The notion is that it would have been treated as "Drive My Car", which is generally agreed is a fold down of the 1965 UK stereo.
    • The stereo "I'm Only Sleeping" is certainly a different mix than the 1966 UK stereo. But for the other two stereo Revolver tracks, "Doctor Robert" and especially "And Your Bird Can Sing", the differences are very small, but heard by some. Again, the notion is that these three tracks would have all received the same treatment.
  4. Adam9

    Adam9 Formerly jbohdan

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I, for one, cannot hear conclusive evidence for "If I Needed Someone" being a fold down. It sounds like the dedicated mono mix
  5. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Thanks for making me do yet more comparisons of 'If I Needed Someone'! ;)

    While the overall tone of the mono Y&T version and the UK mono mix are very similar, there are certain (very) minor things that still lead me to believe that the Y&T version must be a fold. (Bear in mind also that as the Rubber Soul stereo mixes are essentially an instrumental track and a vocal track, Capitol might not have done a regular 50/50 flat folddown).

    Here are three 15 second samples of the guitar solo section.
    LP is a rip from the mono Y&T LP
    MONO CD is the mono mix from CD
    FOLD CD is a folddown of the 1965 stereo mix from CD.

    I've done some EQ-ing to try and match them as best as I can (they are not identical however, so take that into account). But notice that the vocal 'Ahhh's are lower in the mix on the UK mono. IMO, there's no way Capitol could have made those louder for Y&T if they used the UK mono. So my conclusion is still that is has to be a folddown of the stereo.

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6sNDjbWVqjxTDEtZzZqaFp1UXM&usp=sharing

    Any other thoughts welcome.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  6. Adam9

    Adam9 Formerly jbohdan

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Sorry for putting you through this! :winkgrin:
    Maybe I can hear the difference, but they all are very close. If the Y&T is indeed a fold down, because all or most of the information is either left or right, the fold down doesn't change the levels or the sound too drastically. So right now I'm not convinced either way but I am leaning towards the fold down view...maybe. :)
  7. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    That's right, folds of this type of stereo mix are VERY hard to determine. All I know is that I can EQ the fold to sound like the Y&T mono, but it doesn't work as well using the UK mono.

    Anyone who plans to put together an 'authentic' mono Y&T from the CDs need not bother about this really.
  8. ShockControl

    ShockControl Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    "Drive My Car" and "If I Needed Someone" on the US mono LP were folds. It is obvious on the former, because the piano plays throughout the refrains, whereas on the UK mono, it is faded down on the last lines. On the latter, granted, it is harder to determine, because everything was placed hard left/right on the stereo mix, so it collapses to mono conveniently.
    fortherecord likes this.
  9. Dinstun

    Dinstun Active Member

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Curiously, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesterday_and_Today has been going back and forth with competing edits about the Revolver stereo mixes on the 2014 CD. For now, they incorrectly state that "The duophonic mixes prepared for the original release in 1966 by Capitol were replaced by true stereo mixes from the mastertapes prepared for Capitol at the time."
  10. Raf

    Raf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    You probably don't have to look too far to find the people responsible for that situation.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  11. Thrillsville

    Thrillsville Active Member

    Location:
    Port Coquitlam, BC
  12. Thesmellofvinyl

    Thesmellofvinyl Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cohoes, NY USA
    How likely is it a sealed copy with the record award seal printed on a slick is the early rainbow colorband label and the duophonic mixes? Would you think if might also be the orange label?
  13. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Forum Resident

    Actually, the UK Revolver compilesYesterday and Today tracks as the Beatles released the shared tracks first in the United States. Also, the tracks on Yesterday and Today that the Beatles released on the UK Rubber Soul LP were poor matches for the other material on the US Rubber Soul LP. That is why Capitol was wise to release these songs on the Yesterday and Today studio album instead. In America, we don't have a problem with putting the single sides onto the LPs. Thus, no need to refer to the album in compilation terms.
  14. Dinstun

    Dinstun Active Member

    Location:
    Tennessee
    If it helps anyone trying to find a true stereo copy, I'll list the records I have. I think the only guaranteed true stereo copy is the ST-8-2553 green label record club version (but mine is very noisy). Watch out for the C1-90447 (with the bar code on the cover and the small Capitol logo on the label) that might be all US mono! Although, if you actually want a mono copy, this one may be the best sounding.
    Code:
    Catalog    Label        Revolver mixes    Runout side 1                    Runout side 2
    ---------  -----------  ----------------  -------------------------------  --------------------------------
    T-2553     rainbow      mono              T1-2553-G4/IAM                   T2-2553-F7/IAM
    ST-2553    rainbow      duophonic         ST1-2553-A3 #2/IAM/&             ST2-2553-A1/IAM/&
    ST-2553    rainbow      duophonic         ST1-2553-B4/IAM/&                ST2-2553-B4 #3/IAM/&
    ST-2553    purple       duophonic         ST-1-2553-W2 #6/O                ST-2-2553-W2/O
    ST-2553    rainbow      stereo/duophonic  ST-1-2553-G26/#3/-</MBC/O        ST2-2553-B8/#6
    ST-2553    orange       stereo            1-2553-F-25./Wly 2/1/*/MBC       ST-2-2553-G-29./1/*/MBC
    ST-8-2553  green        stereo            ST-1-82553-A1/21                 ST-2-82553-A1/21
    C1-90447   purple       mono!             C1-1-90447-G35/SRC ...           C1-2-90447-G32/SRC ...
    C1-90447   purple       stereo            C1-1-90447 F2/1-1/Wally/MBC/SRC  C1-2-90447 F2/1-1/Wally/MBC/SRC
    EAS-80568  green apple  UK stereo         ST-X-1-2553/1S2/26/?/?-3         ST-X-2-2553/1S/29/?
    
    The ST-2553 listed as "stereo/duophonic" means that Side 1 has "I'm Only Sleeping" and "Dr. Robert" in true stereo, while Side 2 "And Your Bird Can Sing" is duophonic. I believe a "duophonic/stereo" version is also possible.

    Anyone else who has this record should feel free to report what they have. It looks like this record or a needledrop is going to be the only way to find the unique stereo Revolver mixes for a while, if ever.