Belle Klipsch review

I own a number of Klipsch speakers including Belles and Cornwalls. At one time I ran them against each other with an SS amp to see where they would end up system wise. In all honesty the Belles didn't convince me vs the Cornwalls as much as I may have wanted them to but I left them downstairs regardless and moved the Cornwalls to my upstairs office. Probably had more to do with the weight than anything else. I was running both during the comparison with an old classic Sony STR V7 , 150 watts of power neither needed.

Shortly thereafter I was gifted a McIntosh 7900, 200 watts, which furthered the watts I don't need concept but suddenly had a major impact on what came out of the Belles. I spent a lot of time in front of this combo.

About a year later I gave in to tubes and purchased a rebuilt Fisher 800B and played it with the Cornwalls first, magic, then took it downstairs and put it on a splitter with the 7900 and the Belles. While I have done upgrades, crossovers and tweeters to the Belles prior the Fisher is gorgeous with them to my ears. I can sit for hours. While that first worried me about the McIntosh investment I found later that after listening for extended periods of time to either amp the differences themselves were enjoyable to come back to, especially switching between different playback modes.

While I have looked at various other upgrades including various horns which I believe comes built and ready to be installed and with a 2" mouth, and possibly going two way, for the moment I am comfortable with my Belles and Cornwalls where and how they are. While the Fisher and the McIntosh have their own signature when you find that recording that appears to be exceptionally done it's quite an experience........for me. Good luck in your journey.

 

I took a PS Audio preamp to get serviced today. They had a Dynaco ST-70 refurbished for sale. I will try it out today with my Belles. I am expecting a magic miracle based on how everyone says I need a tube power amp to made the Belles sing rather than ring.

 

Are they loaning it to you?

 

Nope, I bought it. I offered $200 less than the asking price and they took it. I figure I can resell it if I do not like it.

 

You animal!

 

Waiting for listening updates...

 

Oh I will comment by tomorrow on whether this alleviates some of the problems.

 

BTW is it normal that the cage is too hot to comfortably touch after 30 minutes?

 

I am thinking you will hear an improvement but, with those speakers you really want an SET amp especially if you hear ringing instead of singing!!! All you need is about 2 wpc with those speakers unless you like to listen at concert levels.. Try an SET amp you will not regret it, that is where the magic you seek is!!!

 

Well, first impressions are positive. That resonance is still there, but maybe a little less. But I am getting a nice roundness without loss of detail with the Dynaco. It is a step in the right direction, that is for sure! Can't wait until my Prima Luna ProLogue Five comes early next week!

 

Yes...I had a 30w Dynaco years ago and I remember it got pretty hot. Ruined one of my albums by mistakenly leaving it on the amp in between record changes. Only did that once.

 

Love ,my Cornwalls and Hersey III. you have to use tube amp.

 

I have been reading this thread and learning a lot more about my quartet's. When I first got them a couple months ago they were harsh on the mid and very little bass. So I started to read threads here to get a better understanding of what I needed to do to make them sing. After a couple days moving them around I did find good placement where the mid's toned down a bit and the bass came alive. My Mac system and my new P6 set up is a good match so far. I do have a Fisher 500C in my living room system so I might just take it down and see what it sounds like. I wish the OP all the luck getting your belle's to sing. BTW I have yet to find anyone making a better xover for my speakers or someone to recap them to make the mid a little less harsh.....

 

I had to work a little to place my Fortes so they would NOT have such a bass hump. I would think Quartets would have even better bass since they are a very similar design but a tad larger. Fortes and Quartets definitely like being about 1-2 feet from the back wall.

 

Glad to hear it although I am not surprised that's what tube amps do, they are a match made in Heaven for Klipsch speakers. Now next step is either an SET amp or a xover or both.

 

Please forgive me if this has already been asked but have you tried treating for floor bounce? I am not talking about a thin area rug, something much more significant. I made panels out Safe & Sound insulation (roxul) that made a huge difference in front of my Cornwall even though I already had a fairly significant rug down already.

 

interesting thread, sounds like you have a project on your hands but when you finally get the sound you are after it will be that much sweeter for all the work you put in. beautiful speakers.

as for the resonances, has anyone tried bracing / damping the enclosure walls and possibly the horns themselves? try some judicious pads of dynamat on the enclosure walls and including on the sides of the horn bodies. possibly some cross bracing - oak 1X's connecting side to side, top to bottom.

As for the shoutiness as others have mentioned possibly due to an impedance dip which should be solved with the new crossover if it included a "zoebel circuit" a simple circuit designed to flatten the impedance. in addition you could measure the frequency response using full bandwidth pink noise and some RTA software / microphone to find your response curve. could use a simple "notch filter" circuit in the crossover to reduce a target frequency peak as well. finally you could experiment with different values of L-pads on the midrange horn.
All of these terms and instructions on how to build them are available online- lots of DIY speaker calculators out there.
Good luck!

 

If I get the courage to take these apart (I fear damage to the veneer) bracing/dampening is something I am certain will help matters a lot. I can feel the cabinets vibrate all the time, but in the narrow range where the resonance irks me, it feels like a cellphone on vibrate! (I exaggerate to illustrate here).

The ALK crossovers is purported to flatten the impedance. Plus it has L-pads for the tweeter and has movable connection to adjust the midrange attenuation.

 

I don't know specifically, but I have several tube amplifiers and most of their tube cages are too hot to comfortably put your hand on for more than a few seconds. Tubes run hot! The original Rogue M-150 monoblocks I owned, had four KT88 tubes that employed cathode bias. Meaning, that each tube was not biased individually and there were no adjustments to make to the tubes.

This amp ran seriously hot! You could literally place a small frying pan on top of the tube cage and it would fry an egg.

Tube amps will get hot, that is why they build cages for it.

Nothing to be concerned about.

I took a look the EL34 amplifier's tube cage temperature with the IR thermometer and it registered 125° at the warmest spot. This amp, like the PrimaLuna with its KT88, is not run hard, like the higher powered Rogue amps. They are only 35 and 36 WPC respectively, so the tubes don't get as hot as amps that push tubes harder.

 

The ALK crossovers will keep the impedance that your amp sees as a steady impedance and it will flatten out the response curve.

Before you go about changing out components that may not be a problem in them selves, it is of utmost importance to flatten out the impedance from changing the response curve of the speaker.

Once you have done this, then you can move on to making other changes.

 

If they are anything like my Cornwall's, it is easy to open up and work on. Lot's and lost of room inside the cabinet. So much so that any hack can get in there and get some work done which is why you get so many modification recommendations. Everyone thinks they have the secret sauce that improves on the original design. Proceed with caution.

I'd take all my advice from Bob Crites and only install what I bought from him. About Us | Critesspeakers.com

 

As far as working on the cabinets the Heresy, Cornwall, Forte, Chorus, is a lot easier compared to Belles.

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. That being said, the Dynaco makes these speakers MUCH better. Less of a problem (but still there) is that annoying resonance. But the "shouting" and "hooded" effect is nearing nil. I am using different recordings as references. For harshness and shouting, one of the recordings I am using is the harmonica on the John Wesley Harding CD. For that one thing at the very least, the new A-55-G drivers trump the original K55-V drivers.


Now, what good would a review be if it is merely mimicking what other say, or preaching to the choir? I started out with stock (except caps) Belles with equipment I was VERY familiar with in the way of amps, CD players/DACs and recordings. My comparisons were against a more than a few speakers I am very familiar with include two Klipsch models (Heresy and Forte). I am not a "me too" kind of guy. If I were to post this review ONLY where Klipsch are not appreciate, what would be the point? The reaction would be "what else is new?"


Now, I am taking you along a journey many here have already taken. But there are some who have not. I have also come here for help and suggestions. And it is obvious I have taken some of those suggestions. I am now very hopeful with reason. And I am thinking the ALK crossovers will be the tipping point in favor of these beautiful speakers.


I am hoping this thread and it many gracious contributors will give back some of what I have taken. I will comment as they come to me and certainly will update when I get the ALK crossovers in a month or so.

 

I have had many experiences with Klipsch Heritage speakers but never the Belle. I’ve gone through the Dynaco ST-70 and MK III monoblocks and loved the combination of them with the Cornwall. I’ve since moved to an EL34 based PrimaLuna amp and I’m very happy. One might lose a little bit of that “tubey” sound but longer lasting tubes and auto-biasing are a nice balance. My Dynaco amps have always driven those tubes hard and I was replacing them all too often. The Gold Lion KT77 set I have in now are killer.

 

I used a new after market driver board design with my Dynaco ST-70 basically just using the iron form the original. It was a nice improvement over my stock version and a welcome addition to my Cornwalls which in the 80's I used to drive with a 250W Carver SS amp This is something folks cringe to hear today as it's not the recommended match for the efficient horn mid & treble speakers