Belt drive TT for headphone use - what to look for?

Lately, I've taken a liking to listening to vinyl with headphones, through a dedicated tube headphone amp. It's a glorious experience, to tell the truth, lying in the comfort of your bedroom with vinyl spinning through tubes and cans. Total immersion into music, and no sweet spot to worry about - it's on top of your head.

However, when you get into good headphone systems - you really learn if your turntable is the weak link in your system. Mine is, alas. It is a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC. It has every imaginable upgrade: acrylic platter, upgraded RCA cables, factory re-wired tonearm, 2M Blue instead of Red, Q-Up lifter, never had any hum, but...

Through cans, in between songs, I can hear the motor, the bearing, the belt, the vinyl whoosh, you name it. So, while through speakers it sounds quite decently, through cans, in between songs it sounds positively asthmatic.

Naturally, I've begun thinking of an upgrade (are you surprised?). Among all the regular metrics and specs, what are the most important ones to indicate that the table is quiet, first and foremost?

I would imagine it is the "wow & flutter" plus "S/N" a/k/a "rumble". Of all the reasonably priced decks attainable by mere mortals, so far Marantz TT15 has the highest S/N metric of 80 dB. Next is the new Technics 1200, with 78 dB, but it's a DD. All the others, so far as I can see, are either lower in S/N spec and higher in W&F, or simply do not publish them (conveniently), like Rega and the lower-end VPI.

The purpose of this thread is to confirm if I'm looking at the right metrics, and, if I am - to gather recommendations of a quiet belt TT under $2K, readily available in the US market (nothing too exotic from overseas) from a reputable retailer and solid warranty/service.

Incidentally, the GEM Polytable has the reputation of being very quiet, but doesn't publish the specs. The new MoFi decks also boast of being super-quiet, but their published S/N is 74 dB - nothing too overwhelming.

 

My experience with exactly what you are talking about is the most important thing is the cartridge. The table and arm are also important but nothing did more for me in this arena than stepping up the cartridge.

I believe if you upgrade the table and arm but leave the 2m blue you’ll still be disappointed. This from someone who had this experience with the 2m bronze.

I’d buy a used table to get quality and spend half on table/arm and half on the cart.

 

Why belt?

 

One thing you find with vinyl is that the grooves are far from silent. A good gain match with cart/pre helps, but I often find the grooves to be much louder than the table itself, which is pretty quite. If you have the headphones on at listening volume but no record playing, what do you hear? How low is your noise floor?

 

Or you could do what I did. Rip your vinyl to 24/96 PCM. Clean it up via ClickRepair or Izotope RX and voila! I make needle drops of almost every record I obtain. Mainly for listening on my head-fi rig.

Regards

 

Well, actually, I have two tables in both of my systems. Belt and DD in the living room, and belt & idler in the bedroom. I listen to acoustic music (mostly jazz) exclusively on belt drives, and electric music (anything with electric instruments in them) on DD and idler.

My living room system has two quality decks - no worries there. Bedroom is where I need to upgrade, and basically only to accommodate headphone listening, they sound fine with speakers.

Why belt? - You gotta start somewhere. Once that is done - the idler may get sold and replaced with the new 1200 GR. All in due time.

 

Actually, cart upgrade is no issue at all, it's pre-ordained - I have a number of carts sitting in my drawer, unopened, begging to be installed. I'm actually having issues picking one - I want to try them all. Once the table choice is established, I will give serious thought to cart pairing.

To pick from: Hana EL, Stanton 681EEE, Pickering: XV15/625E, XV15/1200E, XSV3000/VL, Denon: DL301/II, DL-160, Nagaoka: MP-110H, MP-150H, Tonar JT-555, Micro Acoustics 3002, Ortofon MC-3 Turbo.

 

I will give it a listen - good advise, thanks.

 

Appreciate the advise, but thanks, no thanks. I'm not contaminating my analog with digital. When I want digital - I have CD versions of most of my vinyl that counts, as backups.

 

You're hearing the table/motor noises being picked up by the cart and being amplified through the headphones or just the ambient TT noise from the room? What are you using for a mat?

 

Try a different cart first, Denon DL160 is very quiet, groove noise wise.

 

That cart is reserved for a better table, once it materializes. On P-J Debut Carbon 2M Blue is the highest grade of cart commensurate with the table. A lesser cart will sound better on a better table, but a better cart on a lesser table may not.

 

I'm hearing internal noise picked up by the cart. No mat - with acrylic platter no mat is needed.

 

Unfortunately the Project table does not do a good job of isolating motor vibration from the platter bearing so it is being transferred to the acrylic platter and into the cart, a good mat may help but a better table is needed.

 

Hm. I have the exact same TT and tried the acrylic platter, but didn't like how it sounded. Now I'm using the original platter with a Herbie's mat & an AT440mlb cart. I have noticed more noise/rumbling coming from the motor lately, but it's not picked up by the cart. I'm upgrading to a Thorens TD-160 soon.
Sounds like you've got a similar itch to get something new, so everyone recommending mods to your current table is pointless! Haha, I can definitely relate!

 

Could the bearing use a drop or two of oil? If so - how often is that to be done? Table's been in use continuosly for close to two years.

 

I'd be curious about this too. Would like to do any necessary maintenance before I sell it. My TT gets a fair amount of use- at least three hours a day since I got it a few years ago. The ProJect Carbons aren't the most "robustly" built machines, but it's served me well, and is a great entry-level "audiophile" TT. There's definitely been an increase in motor or belt noise recently. Getting a little off topic though, I guess...

 

Nope, you're staying precisely on topic. My issue to the penny - noticing more noise lately. Cans really opened it up.

 

Specs are never the best way to buy anything. It is like buying your dinner at a familiar restaurant by reading an ingredients list rather than by tasting and choosing what you know you like. you ultimately need to listen to all of them, but simply by relying on specs to create a "short list", you are eliminating many of what might have been your favorite options. Specs are really akin to other people's opinion, although they are disguised as objective fact. There are many ways that companies who publish specs manipulate them to read what they want them to. If you recall back in the day when you got literature from mfrs rather than going to their websites, some offered spec sheets as a page in a brochure, or as separate product sheets. It was common for people to shop based on these sheets and the data within. I fell victim to that myself at an early age. Once I had heard most of the gear to use as a comparison to the specs, I discovered that not only did some of the products that boasted the best specs not sound best, but some of the products with the worst specs sounded best! It's totally confusing if you are assuming that the specs are all done in the same fashion and published fairly and honestly. That would be a mistake. They are not. Some companies publish for instance with amplifiers, lower power output, higher distortion, etc, and yet have better sound when compared to most other products in the category. You would have never bought a tube amp if you had only read the specs.
-Bill

 

Nope. It'll last for years.
-Bill

 

Better turntables help in many ways, noise is just one. Noise also comes in many types. vinyl is a noisy medium, and there is really no way around that. Keeping records and styli clean help, as does using a nice deck and a top notch stylus. I like the line contact type or variants the best.
-Bill

 

Choosing has just become more difficult. I live in NYC. Local hi-fi retailers are notoriously snotty, and do not really carry that much inventory, to be able to listen and choose. Mostly they will carry only a few tables in stock, and mostly from brands I'm not interested in to begin with (Rega, Clearadio, Pro-Ject, Thorens). Or, it will be something exotic, with the price tag of a new Honda Civic. So, unfortunately, I have to buy on specs and reviews, and cannot really even hope to listen to every table I'd consider. Case in point - I wanted to schedule an audition to listen to the new 1200 GR, with one of local hi-end retailers listed as an authorized dealer. They wouldn't even reply to my emails, I guess I'm not their type of client, if it's only a $1,700 table I'm interested in, AND I have to listen to it, first...

 

I work nights so on my nights off I like to listen to vinyl through headphones. I'm very happy with my hot-rodded SL1200MKII that I bought from action pact which includes the KAB fluid damper, improved wiring, dampened arm, etc. AT150mlx cart and Grado SR325is cans via a Grado extension cable. Restored Sansui 2000X for amplification.

 

In that case, it's probably seriously overdue for three or four drops of the correct oil. Then again, the Pro-ject Debut Carbon DC was never the quietest turntable. Motor rotation noise and main bearing noise are audible, up close, to the unaided ear. It's all masked by room background noise levels when listening through speakers. When you use cans, they block out part of the room background noise and that's probabaly the main reason you're hearing mechanical noise transfer through the cartridge.

If you move up the Pro-ject line to the RPM 5.1 or 5.1 SE, you get a much better bearing, a longer tonearm (the 9" Carbon), better arm bearings, an isolated motor, a better belt, and an excellent platter. It's one of the real sweet spots in the Pro-ject turntable line. Quiet to the unaided ear up close.

 

My vinyl is cleaned with a vacuum RCM, treated with Last or GroovGlide, brushed with a carbon brush before every play, and, on this particular table, a Michell clamp is used for play. Onzow, carbon styus brush, and Record Doctor stylus cleaners are used to keep the stylus clean. Mostly all my bases are covered - I've done my homework. I'm at the point where the table has reached the plateau of its capabilities.