Best Cartridge/Stylus for Used Records?

To tame the brightness ... the answer? A Shure M97 XE !

 

I hook the heresies to speakers “A” and the Marquis to “B”. Turn the knob to “speaker A + B” and that’s it. Easy peasy lemon squeezey. Also, the EV’s are not subs. It has the SP 12 and the T34 in the cabs. So good bottom end, not booty thumping by any means.

 

Dunno if anyone's still paying attention here... but among a few other carts I purchased to play around with, I picked up a Pickering V-15 AT1 and a DE Stylus. I like it quite a bit. It has lots of life. Got a Grado Green Prestige which sounds very good and somewhat similar actually. The Ortofon 2M Red sounds shrill in comparison with little low-end. The Nagaoka MP-110 is very smooth and nice but lacks life. I've got a Shure M35x on the way for kicks.

Last night, I installed new Crossovers (Bob Crites). The overall sound quality has improved, but the top-end is now even brighter and cleaner (Again, Heresys hooked up to a Marantz 2265B) which has me re-thinking carts again. I have the Pickering setup in there right now. And it's a little more fatiguing to listen to. So, I'm thinking about the following:

1) Screwing around with different Pickering/Stanton set-ups. Is there a stylus that would mellow out the high-end a bit as compared with the DE?
2) Upgrading from a Grado Green Prestige to... I dunno A Grado Gold? They're supposed to be warmer and also forgiving with less than perfect records. And I feel like my speakers have more "potential" now to bring a higher-end cart to life.
3) Trying something new. Denon 103 and 110 have both been recommended by a number of different people.

I know I started this post in light of my desire to find a cart that was forgiving with surface noise. That's still an important factor. But clearly, it's just one of many...

 

I usually listen with either a Pickering/Stanton or a Grado. If one doesn't work well with a particular record I swap cartridges. If neither work, I swap turntables and listen with my Ortofon Quintet Black. That usually takes care of the problem.

 

This poster and I think alike. And for mono, pre 1966 Stereo, and well loved but nice playing LP and 45 RPM discs, I am a Shure M 44-7 man. For me it makes music and sounds very nice with the least fuss as a daily driver. Few if any cartridges play the older discs for me as well which are still available. The M 44-G is the most refined of that family for a current offering.

 

Which is how I do things. And we share this common sense approach in common. I do have belt and idler drives also in my fleet.

 

And the recently discontinued Shure M 35x for my ear embarrassed the M97xE, and I prefer the old M 75 family for post 1966 LP playback.

 

@Soundgarden, is the Debut Carbon your only turntable? If so you've got some serious compliance mismatch issues going on unless you are adding mass to that arm. Denon 103 on that arm? Hell no.

Cartridge Resonance Evaluator - Vinyl Engine

 

Ahh, I'm not the only one that likes those two. Cool. Any advice on what you get when you go up the line w/ Grado? Green's pretty entry-level. I would hope that if went up to Red/Blue, Silver/Gold, I'd get more of what I like about the Green. Fair presumption or not? And given your experience with Pickering/Stanton, would you have any recommendations for a stylus or cart/stylus combo that might address the brightness from the new crossovers? Thanks, for your continued wisdom...

 

Well, I guess I'm gonna have to research this more. I've been adding mass to the arm so that I can balance the pressure. I had (naively?) assumed that the only issue was getting the pressure right. But sounds like there's more to. Other than weight, is there a sound quality issue(s) from tonearms/cart mismatches? I will read about this. Thanks.

 

Well, now I'm excited to try out the M35x. I wonder if an M75 would be good fit for my Marantz/Heresy set up...

 

A M 75 EJ would be nice with your Marantz/Heresy setup. And Jico makes great styli for them.

 

Thanks for the tips. Seems like Shure has a pretty solid following... (remember, I'm new to this and don't know this stuff...)

 

Yes, there are sound quality issues. Google cartridge compliance. Your tonearm mass is 6g, which is very light. The M35X, Denon 103, and MP-110 are all not great to very poor matches for that tonearm. With a light tonearm, you want a higher compliance cartridge.

 

I have a Grado Gold 1 with an 8MZ stylus - much midrange goodness. I'm expecting delivery today of a Grado Black 2 - I'll let you know what's up with that next week.

Sorry, but I have no experience that relates the words brightness/fatiguing and S/P. Makes me wonder about what the new crossovers are doing?

 

I've tried many cartridge since I simply can't tolerate too much surface noise, it makes me suffer. Over the years I tried a AT33PTG, a AT33EV, a Ortofon 2M Black, a Grado Sonata, a Dynavector 20X2L, Denon DL301MKII and finally a Grado reference series Master2. The Grado reference series Master2 is *by far* the best in terms of eliminating surface noise, so much that I sometime wonder if my phono stage is on when I drop the needle, followed by the Denon. The worst was the Ortofon 2M Black, truly mind boggling, followed by the Dynavector, to the point that I suspect the Dynavector was out of spec.

 

I recently upgraded from AT95E to AT44omlb and my used records have much less surface noise.

 

I think the equation you're looking for is B/F= S/P*Heresy...

The new crossovers provide cleaner sound across the spectrum. And they make the already bright high's even brighter. I relayed my experience to Crites, he said it's basically what he hears from others. I can hear the sound improvements. And I like them... except for the damn high end. Part of the problem may be that I have tinnitus. My ears are sensitive to higher frequencies. So I may have to do more tweaking here than the average listener. But if I can get this dialed in I'll be a happy camper cause I otherwise love the sound of the Heresys.

 

Oh, the Grado Master Reference is $1000! Damn. Here I thought maybe I'd go get one... Although this makes me wonder if the Platinum or Sonata carts share this characteristic, as they come in at $350 and $600 respectively. $350 could (maybe) be justified...

 

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So I researched this a bit. Looks like my compliance "sweet spot" is 16-37 with a 6g unweighted tone-arm.

So I see what you're saying about the Denons. Same would apply to the Nagaokas, it seems. But all the Shures are at 20-30, so perhaps you're mistaken about the M35X? Or is there more to the story... Also, the Grados are all at 20, which seems like a good fit as concerns compliance/mass.

I'm gonna read more on this. But... to compensate a bit, can't I simply fasten some weights to increase the mass of the tonearm? Seems for every 1g I add, I can drop the compliance by 1. That's what the calculator tells me, at least.

Thanks for helping me out with this. PS... I can't find reliable info on Pickering compliance. Any ideas?

 

I have a similar high end situation with my Focal 826Vs. But not when I drive them with my vintage 1970's receivers (Sony & Marantz). Maybe you need a different amplification component?

 

To me there is a quite a big reduction in noise surface noise between the Sonata and the reference series Master2, it's well worth the price since it totally cure my quest for a quiet cart. It's also more dynamic, and cleaner in the bass, more bass notes, less boom boom.

 

I was also going to suggest the Denon Dl301mk2. Awesome cart that is great with used LPs.

 

You can add mass to the tonearm, but simply cranking up the tracking force is not adding mass. You'll have to add weight to the tonearm somehow, and at some point you will not be able to balance the tonearm without a different counterweight. Re: Shure, the compliance on their DJ cartridges looks a little higher than you might expect, but they were all designed to perform best in a medium mass arm like on a Technics 1200 or one of the Chinese Super OEM tables. I was able to get decent performance out of the M35X on an 11g tonearm but I still think that is a tad light for the cartridge and it would perform better on a slightly heavier arm.

Bottom line is that if you are going to go down the cartridge swapper path, I think you'd be better off with a different turntable. Not what you want to hear, I'm sure, but it will make things much, much easier for you. Look for something with a medium mass arm that takes universal headshells. Headshells vary in weight so you can add a heavier headshell for carts like the Denon 103 that are really designed for heavier arms. For a higher compliance cart, you put on a lighter headshell. If you keep swapping carts on that Pro-Ject, at some point the fragile tonearm wiring is going to break, then you may need to get the whole tonearm rewired.

RE: Pickering, those cartridges are no longer made, you'll have to scour online for old manuals and such. Vinyl Engine may have some. Be mindful that if you are using NOS styli, rubber suspensions might have dried out and not perform like they should. RE: aftermarket styli, it's anyone guess on those because manufacturer's often don't publish specs on those, and they can vary by type and manufacturer. It is possible to work backward to find the compliance but it's a PITA and you'll need some tools and software for it.

 

They discontinued the M35X? I wonder why...I prefer it to the M44-7.