Best cassettes for recording?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jamollo, Nov 29, 2017.

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  1. I used to do that but every time I set my rig down to bully someone laughing at me, some other rassinfrassin $#@&^!! stole the thing.
    Hence the Walkman on my belt. This keeps both hands free for full on harassment while still allowing me to enjoy my vintage tunes and gear.
     
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  2. Jamollo

    Jamollo Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Buffalo
    Just a question about cassette multi-tracking - is there any quality loss when re-recording tracks (recording over a previously dubbed track)? Or can I do multiple takes without issue?
     
  3. Raynie

    Raynie Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Snortland, Oregano
    Used to tape a lot. Sony metal SR if possible. If not. Sa90 or xlii90 are good and equivalent to each other. Sony type ii were not very good. Avoid other brands.
     
  4. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Your question is not exactly clear - maybe you did not realize that.

    If you record something new over an existing track - meaning erasing the old and recording over what was there - one track at a time or one track by one track, there is effectively no problem at all.

    Your Portastudio can also do a "bounce" - that is playing your recording on (for example) Track 1 on headphones, adding to it by playing along with it, and recording the total result on Track 3 or Track 4. That brings along the hiss of the original Track 1 and adds more hiss. That's an "overdub", but when it is done on the same machine it can be called a "bounce". There are best practice techniques to do this with a Portastudio which are outside this thread. Basically you can do this two times before there is definitely too much hiss. Doing it one time, you will hear the added hiss but it is maybe OK. The machine allows you to do this as many times as you want - you could do this 15 times but if you did, you would be left with a track with way way more hiss than music. If you have Dolby or DBX and it is calibrated properly, you could bounce a few more times without experiencing the ruining hiss - but the Dolby and even DBX calibration is usually not perfect on Portastudios, which also is something for a different thread. You have to plan your bounces, and for technical reasons you never want to bounce to adjacent tracks - that will sound bad. You can bounce Track 1 to Track 3 or 4, or bounce Track 2 to 4, but you can't bounce Track 2 to 1 or 3. And so on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  5. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    On a properly-maintained deck that's still in good working order and with good tape there shouldn't be. But with this older equipment of unknown provenance? Who knows.

    Cassette has really tight tolerances compared to studio open reel decks, which are also typically more robust, and the tapes themselves are getting really old, including the shells and all of their fiddly little components.

    Make sure to keep the heads and the tape path demagnetized. Residual magnetism could definitely cause quality loss on the tracks you want to keep in place.
     
  6. Sprague Dawley

    Sprague Dawley Forum Resident

    Location:
    Japan
    I love the cobalt ones (black shell) from National Audio.

    dont know why but their chrome (clear case) ones just dont do it for me
     
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  7. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    A cassette tape recording also gave the Beatles two hits with John Lennon posthumously singing lead vocals:

     
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  8. Jamollo

    Jamollo Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Buffalo
    Sorry for the confusion - what I meant was what you first said (to erase and re-record a track). As for the hiss, is it true that if I record at high levels and then lower them in mix down I can get rid of hiss?
     
  9. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    You can't get rid of it, but you will lower the hiss, and that should be ok.
     
  10. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    You should always record at the highest level you can without distortion on the individual tracks. Assuming your deck is working well. If the alignment is off, high record levels can cause bleed into the other tracks. But yes, doing so will minimize hiss, which is crucial if you're going to be bumping stuff down once or even twice.
     
  11. GuildX700

    GuildX700 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I always preferred the now silly super expensive Maxell Metal Vertex blanks, but seeing those are holy grail now I'm saving my sealed ones for only special recordings. But, a few years back I got a few 10 pack cases of Sony Metal XR 60 for $35 each, they are now selling for about $100 a case, they are great tapes, not quite up to snuff as the Vertex, but very good.

    2 years back I got a deal on some 2 packs of Sony CD-IT 74 minute blanks for $3, they are now over $7 for a 2 pack, they are very nice tapes for recording without breaking the bank. One needs to test several types and brands to find what best suits your deck and music you plan to record.
     
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  12. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I know some may disagree. But I tend to record at lower levels. To me, when you record at high levels, you have less "room" to work with. Yes, you seemingly hear more hiss when the sound is quieter/lower. But you can raise the sound/drown out the hiss...if that is the only consideration involved. More importantly, you have more room to add effects and combine tracks when you've recorded each track at a lower level of volume. I'm less worried about hiss than I am about brick-walling and having sounds crowding out each other, so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  13. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  14. Alan2

    Alan2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Maxell XL IIS, if you can get them. A very good type II tape, good, solid shells.
     
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  15. Alan2

    Alan2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    You beat me to it.
     
  16. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I'm not sure how that works. You should always be able to attenuate the signal before adding effects or combining the track with some other track.
     
  17. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    It's easier, gives you more flexibility, and leads to better recording... to add to the sound rather than to take away sound that's already there.
     
  18. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Yeah, that's right. 60 minutes is about as far as you should go given the fact that the tape gets thinner as you get into higher record times. Bad idea when you'd be fast forward and rewinding a good amount to flesh out recordings on it. I agree with some other posts that Type IV is overkill. On top of the other suggestions, I also loved Sony's CRO2 tapes. The Maxell XLII-S was great for this kind of thing and very durable.

    As has also been said, if you're doing this for fun, enjoy. If you really mean to make something out of this, go digital. That's what everyone is doing and has done for a very long time. Recording on a seriously flawed format won't be able to keep up with what others are doing far more easily in the digital domain.

    Ed
     
  19. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I'm laughing with you. That is awesome! :edthumbs: :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
     
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  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Your machine is not biased for Type IV tapes. Use TDK SA or Maxell XL II and stick to C 46 or C 60. C 90 is thinner tape and could be used if very careful, but more delicate.
     
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  21. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    The hyper-strong advocates for digital just can't help themselves when they see a cassette thread.

    That tells me they aren't confident/secure in their digital love.

    And have to seek out analog/cassette people...to try to get those who like analog cassettes...to see things their way: digitally clear, sharp, and brittle.

    "But this digital sounds analog!"

    I'd rather have the real thing...
     
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  22. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Yes.
     
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  23. Pinknik

    Pinknik Senior Member

    Okay, I’ll disagree with you. You record each individual track at a strong level, not over driven, to achieve a good signal to noise ratio. If you record low, then bring that up, you increase the noise. Having “room” for sounds/effects is a function of the mix, not the original recording level. You can bring down levels of things while striving for an overall strong level on the format you mix to. I think you’d achieve the same balance, without as much noise.
     
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  24. JimSpark

    JimSpark I haven't got a title

    Sorry in advance for this lengthy post, I'm having more trouble than usual editing my thoughts...

    Back in the day, my favorite tape for recordings was the Maxell MX-110. Yes, a metal Type IV 110 minute tape. Probably as thin a material as you can get, a disaster waiting to happen for most people but I guess I was lucky with them. The ones I was buying around 1997 were usually able to record 116 minutes across both sides, had the best sound quality to my ears, the peak recording levels driven usually to +6 db consistently, and using Dolby C encoding. That's probably never been considered best practice, and nowadays is probably laughable to many of you, but it always worked well for me.

    I recorded about 80 such 110 minute tapes, only one failed, oddly enough getting tangled up during a tape rewind (my home-made Beach Boys Smile compilation made in 2001, R.I.P.:angel:). Many such tapes were played numerous times in my car and on my home deck. A 3-head Aiwa with fine bias, HX Pro, and Metal Type IV capability, not real pricey but just a solid machine that served me well for 14 years before it gave out.

    I listened to some of those tapes earlier this year on a used early-1990s Pioneer deck, and they sound best to me without the Dolby C turned on. The Dolby C, at least on this Pioneer, dampens the sound more than I remember it and far more than I'd like. With the Dolby switched to the off position, those tapes seem to sound as clear as they did at the time I recorded them, and it's still an enjoyable listen. I've got 4 more blank unwrapped Maxell MX-110s that I bought around 2002, and a few other assorted Sony and Maxell blanks left over. I was thinking of making a new compilation tape with this Pioneer deck, just haven't had the time to sit down and put one together.

    Ever since I started making cassette tapes back in 1984, and all the way up to the present, I consider myself to have been very lucky with cassette recording and playback, both in sound quality and reliability. Most of my friends back in those days had many complaints about and problems with their home-made cassettes, so I'm not surprised to hear those same complaints nowadays.

    Long story short -- cassette recording and playback has always been fun and rewarding to me. If I had to buy new cassettes today, I'd look for a Type II High Bias like the Maxell XL-II or Maxell XL-II-S.
     
  25. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Not necessarily. You can fill up the overall soundstage without having to bring anything up and increase noise.
     
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