Best Record cleaning system?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jason Michael, Dec 7, 2004.

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  1. Jason Michael

    Jason Michael Senior Member Thread Starter

    Over the past few months I've been the fortunate recipient of a couple of peoples record collections. I now have about 1500 records that I would love to play but unfortunately the owners were not as fastidious as I would like and many of them are pretty grungy (and not in that Seattle way) so I'm contemplating getting a record cleaner such as Nitty Gritty or VPI. Is there anything I should look out for? Any features that are worth getting? Or should I just forget the cleaner idea and wash them by hand? If that's a better option, how would I go about doing that? What's the best fluid to use?
    Thanks for any advice,
    Jason
     
  2. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    If you can afford the $425 right now, I would highly recommend the VPI 16.5 Record Cleaning Machine. It normally goes for around $500, but I bought mine recently from Red Trumpet for $425, which I believe is only a limited-time price. I am not trying to recommend it exclusive of other brands or techniques, just that I recently bought one and I like it a great deal. You can use whatever kind of cleaning fluid you want. Refer to any of the threads that exist discussing the different fluids available and the pros and cons of each. Some people also like to buy aftermarket brushes, but I have been content with the brush that comes with the 16.5

    Jason, that is $425 US Dollars, just to be clear.
     
  3. JMT

    JMT Senior Member

    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    With the number of records you now have, I would highly recommend investing in a vacuum system that spins the vinyl. I second Ian's recommendation of the VPI 16.5 and actually prefer applying the cleaning solution by hand, rather than have an applicator arm like the VPI HW-17. I think you have better control in applying the solution evenly over the album. The vacuum motor is a bit noisy but it does remove the solution nicely. For the price, it's tough to beat. I would also recommend purchasing two dry clean brushes. One to dry clean the record prior to wet cleaning it, and then one kept near your turntable for the "once over lightly" cleaning just prior to playing. I use two of the Hunt EDA brushes.
     
  4. Jason Michael

    Jason Michael Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thanks for the info. So are VPI generally considered to be better than Nitty Gritty? And am I better off with an auto or manual system?

    Jason
     
  5. JMT

    JMT Senior Member

    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    I only had the lower end Nitty Gritty model, so perhaps this is not a fair comparison. But I did not like the fact that the vacuum port on the NG is on the underside of the record, as opposed to the VPI which is a tube that swings over the top of the record. I like to be able to apply the solution and vacuum without having to handle the record. I also like to watch the solution being sucked up.

    Yeah, my wife thinks I'm strange too.
     
  6. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I also recommend the VPI 16.5.

    If you get one, be sure that you also get, if a Zerostat anti-static gun. I find that cleaning my records always builds up a static charge. The Zerostat is great for removing the static.

    Red Trumpet also sells the Zerostat.

    BTW, I am not an employee of Red Trumpet, although I consider Rick Flynn, the president of the company, to be my friend.
     
  7. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I have the VPI 16.5 and am very happy with it.
     
  8. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Or, buy a bottle of White Distilled Vinegar for 2.59 and a bottle of Distilled water for 3.99 , a record brush and youre done.
     
  9. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    If you can afford a VPI 16.5 go for it, it is by far the best bang for the buck. Also the Hunt EDA and the Zerostat are well worth it. I also use a Zerodust (the gummy thing) for stylus cleaning (others use liquids). Clean record and clean stylus are essential for good listening and long record life. The real debate is what record cleaning fluid you use. There are many threads on this forum on that subject, have fun researching them.
     
  10. boneman

    boneman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Woodinville, WA
    I have the 16.5 which I purchased at Experience Audio in Seattle and am very happy with it. I like the Record Research fluid and the Disc Doctor cleaning brushes.
     
  11. JMT

    JMT Senior Member

    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA
    I really like the Buggtussel Vinyl Zyme cleaning solution. It isn't cheap, but if you invest a bottle of the concentrate it you will end up with 2 gallons of regular strength and a gallon of heavy duty.
     
  12. BrettyD

    BrettyD Senior Member

    Location:
    New Zealand
    These are quite valid points. However, some prefer the NG machines due to the clean side of the record always being on the "downside", as the tube is underneath.

    With machines with the tube on top there is the possibilty of contaminating a just cleaned side on the platform/turntable base holding the record, if this was compromised by the side opposite that being cleaned.

    Phew! Hard to explain but can you picture it?


     
  13. VUDSM

    VUDSM Senior Member

    Location:
    AUSTRALIA
    I've got a Nitty Gritty 1.5Fi. This is the semi-automatic version. The only thing you have to do is turn the record over. To do both sides of an LP takes about 2 minutes.

    Before I bought this, I did a fair bit of research and found pretty much an equal divide of opinion between Nitty Gritty and VPI (of course there is also Loricraft and Clearaudio units which are at a much higher price point).

    In Australia the Nitty Gritty was much easier to source, hence that's what I bought.

    I have found the Nitty Gritty to be an excellent unit. I find that I only use hand scrubbing (using either DD or RRL fluid) for 10-15% of my records with the rest cleaned completely on the NG using NG Pure 2 fluid.

    I find personally that the less work you have to do in cleaning records, the more you will clean. Hence the reason I went for the automatic Nitty Gritty.

    The ultimate record cleaning machine is probably the Loricraft, but it is not available in Australia and to import it was going to cost a fortune.
     
  14. Heuer

    Heuer New Member

    Location:
    Nottingham
    I use the Loricraft, superb machine and a joy to use. Stick a stylus on it and you could use it as a record deck - something the makers are considering I understand! You need to investigate the PRCIII before you make any buying decision.

    They supply and recommend L'Art du Son cleaner with the machine. I believe this fluid is sold by Classic Records in the US.
     
  15. jpbarn

    jpbarn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern NJ
    I bought a used Nitty Gritty 2.5fi about 15 years ago that quickly started leaking fluid from the pipe that goes from tank to "lips". I guess I could have had it repaired but I never got around to it; in the meantime I bought that stiff VPI brush & applied fluid by hand, then used the Nitty Gritty to vaccuum off the gunk. I subsequently read an article by Michael Fremer, which I think is up on his Tracking Angle Site, that stated that this was actually the best way to do it; I think the theory is that, since you're applying the fluid with a different brush, the lips that make final contact with the LP surface remain largely uncontaminated, as opposed to doing it the Nitty Gritty "correct" way, where every rotation/fluid application would just be smearing around the gunk, or something. (Michael also has several other steps- see article).

    Just for the record, & not to be controversial, but I actually don't hear the miracles that supposedly take place with record cleaners, unless the dirt would otherwise have been visible. I clean all used records so that no further degradation takes place, & to preserve my cartridge I guess, but when I read some of the eulogies for pre/post cleaned records, I'm just not there. Some cleaned records are quiet (they were usually quiet before), & some remain noisy; cleaning, in my experience, does not remove all ticks & pops, etc. Fun to do in bright sunlight, though...

    John.
     
  16. Larry Johnson

    Larry Johnson Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago area
    My kind of suggestion. Follows the K.I.S.S. principle. I've always just used a "Discman?" brush on the record on the turntable. Very primitive, I know. Unfortunately, Discman (or whatever their name was) no longer sells the cleaning fluid. My dealer recommended distilled water with one drop of dish detergent added, but I was afraid of soap residue being left on the vinyl. What proportion of vineagar do you add to the distilled water?
     
  17. Jose Garcia

    Jose Garcia New Member

    Location:
    Hatillo, PR
    The first time I saw this machine in action..wow!! I was impressed but not more than after I heard the results. The owner had used VPI's , NG's and every "by hand" method available. He was sold on the Loricraft unit.

    Bad thing is, it cost around $1,500.00 ...

    Jose.
     
  18. RZangpo2

    RZangpo2 Forum Know-It-All

    Location:
    New York
    I believe you're thinking of Discwasher. I used it for years, too. Now I would hesitate to use the turntable this way -- too much strain on the motor. You could probably get a junk turntable cheap at Goodwill or something like that, then use it for cleaning only. I'll bet it would be worth it for the wear you would save on your "good" TT.

    I'm expecting the el cheapo Nitty Gritty model, the Record Doctor II, as a holiday gift. :righton: I'll let you all know how I like it.
     
  19. Gregory Earl

    Gregory Earl Senior Member

    Location:
    Kantucki
    Get the VPI or the NG.
    After cleaning records for 20 years with an Audio Technica brush and fluid,(or I thought I was cleaning them.....WRONG) I finally got a VPI 16.5 and Disc Dr. brushes and man oh man, all I can say is I waited too long.

    You need this. You really need it. Wish someone had told me this years ago.
     
  20. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    >>>>>Hi Larry. Actually, from trial and error, I spray some distilled water on the record,(not a lot) then take a capful of white vinegar and pour it on the disk, then use the record brush to spread it around and around about 4 or 5 times, so that it gets into the grooves.
    Flip the record, do the same to the other side. Then I spray rinse with lots of distilled water. This really works. a lot of gunk from the grooves comes out.


    Hope this helps.

    Mikey
     
  21. Scott Young

    Scott Young Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I have to add my $.02 worth and say I tried Mikey's white vinegar method and it really really works! While I don't have any experience with a Keith Monks machine, a Nitty Gritty, or any of the other systems, back in the seventies when I was actively collecting I used my share of Discwasher fluid and lots of dishwashing detergent. I was never thrilled with the results. Given the lackluster results of my earlier cleaning efforts I was not prepared for the results of that first vinegar wash. It was definitely an "oh wow" experience. Much lower surface noise and lots fewer clicks that I had to fix in the computer. And I thought the record was already fairly clean! For a brush I use a lint brush...the kind with soft directional bristles on both sides. It seems to work the vinegar down into the grooves and loosens the dirt without doing any apparent damage. I use the other side of the brush during the rinse cycles, vacuuming the brush with a shop vac between rinses.

    For skeptics I'd say try this on a disc you don't care much about and see for yourself how it works. (Just make sure you get all the vinegar rinsed off using plenty of distilled water.) I don't doubt there are systems that do a better job but I doubt there is anything this cheap that can beat it!

    Thanks for the tip Mikey! I owe you one...
     
  22. Scott Young

    Scott Young Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I have to add my $.02 worth and say I tried Mikey's white vinegar method and it really really works! While I don't have any experience with a Keith Monks machine, a Nitty Gritty, or any of the other systems, back in the seventies when I was actively collecting I used my share of Discwasher fluid and lots of dishwashing detergent. I was never thrilled with the results. Given the lackluster results of my earlier cleaning efforts I was not prepared for the results of that first vinegar wash. It was definitely an "oh wow" experience. Much lower surface noise and lots fewer clicks that I had to fix in the computer. And I thought the record was already fairly clean! For a brush I use a lint brush...the kind with soft directional bristles on both sides. It seems to work the vinegar down into the grooves and loosens the dirt without doing any apparent damage. I use the other side of the brush during the rinse cycles, vacuuming the brush with a shop vac between rinses.

    For skeptics I'd say try this on a disc you don't care much about and see for yourself how it works. (Just make sure you get all the vinegar rinsed off using plenty of distilled water.) I don't doubt there are systems that do a better job but I doubt there is anything this cheap that can beat it!

    Thanks for the tip Mikey! I owe you one...
     
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