Best sounding 12AX7A/ECC83 & 12AT7/ECC81 tubes? Telefunken, Amperex, Mullard?

Okay, while we're at it, anyone have a preference on the best sound in 12AX7A/ECC83 pre-amplifier & 12AT7/ECC81 power driver tubes?

Daddy Tonmeister?

 

Telefunkens of course

 

But, for less money than those teles, I find Mullard and Brimar tubes sound good in my Jolida 502b.

 

At the recommendation of a friend of mine in the audio business, another friend who had just recently bought a Rogue Tempest II integrated amp contacted a tube seller (in Michigan, I think) for a set of what that seller prefered for his particular setup. The preamp section of the Rogue uses pairs of 12AX7 and 6SN7 tubes. The seller, unbeknownst to him, ended up agreeing with my friend that some original RCA tubes, closely matched, should do the trick, the owner accepted his suggestions so about a week later we got together to switch out the tubes. (One downside to this was that with shipping included, these 4 tubes came to about $80 each.)

I own a Rouge 66 Magnum that uses 12AU7 in the line stage, and I must admit that my own experiments with RCA tubes of this sort have been both a blessing and a curse. I have not been able to connect with this seller, but I have bought my share of used tubes on ebay at ridiculously cheap prices, and while some of these have sounded superior to my old standby Mullard CV-4003, they were often microphonic and had to be discarded. From this experience I had an inkling of what to expect when we changed out the Rogue's stock tubes, but within less than an hour it was clear to both my friend and me that the transformation that the system underwent after all of the stock tubes had been replaced (we had previously added a set of cryogenically treated Valve Art KT88's to the amp, replacing the stock EH ones) my friend had come to the conclusion that my insistence to experiment with tubes could provide a more significant improvement to the sound of an audio system than any other tweak possibly could be on the mark — once the best combination of tubes had been found.

Telefunkens are great, some of the best RCAs are even better.

 

I've heard that the Mullards were kinda "dark" sounding...?

 

I've never heard a Mullard 12AX7 (or a Brimar for that matter either). If experience is any teacher, though, I'd guess that RCA, Telefunken or Amperex Bugle Boys would be the way to go.

 

I wouldn't describe any of the ones I use like that. However, there seem to be more fake 'Mullards' floating around out there (particularly on Ebay) than any other prestigious make. Perhaps those sound dark, or it could be that real Mullards might sound darker in certain equipment, depending on operating points or other variables?

 

Maybe so. I've also heard about the Telefunkens; supposed to be very neutral and balanced, but again, that may be system dependant too.

 

Yep!

 

That's why I buy my tubes at Upscale Audio, no fake ones there. I sure wouldn't describe them as dark at all.

 

Yep to the "neutral and balanced" or "system dependant"?

 

Telefunkens and Mullards are very fine tubes - in the right circuit and system. Telefunkens, in my pre-amp, sound a bit "hi-fi" - clean and balanced. Mullards sound very colorful (not necessarily colored) and lend a sort of psychedelic flourish to the sound. (Boy, this sounds like a bunch of hoo-ha, sorry, but that's what I hear).

Telefunken 12at7s sound far and away the best of all of them, in my system. Precise without being edgy.

RCAs are very underrated, IMO. Given that there's no best tube for every application, I'd recommend trying some RCA 12ax7s or better 7025s before laying out big moolah for Teles or Mullards, without hearing them first. RCAs *can* match either of those at a far smaller cost. IMO.

 

Really there is no best sounding tube. How a given brand tube will sound is circuit dependant. A Telefunken may sound spectacular in Amp A but horrible in Amp B. Then factor in personal preference and your really flipping a coin. If possible its best to find people that own the same gear as you that have rolled different tubes and see what there take is on it.

Craig

 

Not exactly correct. A good sounding tube will sound good in just about any circuit designed for it; a bad sounding tube won't sound good in any circuit.

IMHO, of course.

 

Well of course a POS is a POS no denying that. I figured that goes without saying. I disagree completely I have heard Mullards 12AX7's sound mudding and undefined in some circuits and found Telefunkens to sound shrill and bright in some circuits. THERE IS NO BEST TUBE it IS MOST definitely circuit dependent of course IMHO.

Craig

 

Well, if not a "Best", then which ones have you heard great things about consistently?

 

NOS

Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex to name a few that list could be very long


New Production

JJ Telsa
EI Elite
EH

 

How does the JJ Tesla stack up against the NOS? Good things said abot the JJ's...

 

I have some EI elites and they sound great.

 

I'd like to try EI elites.

 

I use JJ Telsa 12AX7 and 12AU7 in my Custom VRD mono blocks I build for customers as the standard tube compliment. I like them QC is great from tube to tube. Which gives me repeatability from amp to amp. I also like EI Elites though. These tubes are cheap enough that you can easily swing trying them both for yourself.

Craig

 

Mullard, Mullard and then the fifties long plate... Mullards! No eighties Mullards though, nothing special, get the old ones.

 

Mullard if you can get them

 

Just 2 weeks ago I bought a Ming Da MC3R preamp from Tim Yuen @

http://www.tubeampaudio.com/prod06-MC3-R.htm

This preamp uses a 5Z4P rectifier, two 12AX7 and a single 12AU7 as a stabilizer. The tubes that came with it were all Chinese tubes, and although decent sounding enough, the tonal balance was skewed towards the higher frequencies, and the sound stage had shrunk considerably compared to the Rogue that had been in my system for the past 3 years. My perception of its sound differed a lot from what others who had heard it had described to me. Since the Rogue uses a pair of 12AU7's and I have done a considerable number tube rolls through it (I have almost 30 different 12AU7's of all brands in the house), but no 12AX7's, I had to borrow several sets of the latter from friends to get to some serious tube comparisons in this circuit.

My findings were that a pair of Telefunken 12AX7 smooth plates and a single RCA triple mica 5814 produced the most dynamic, clear and properly balanced frequency spectrum out of the pool of tubes available to me. While the pairing of Mullard CV4003 and ECC83 tubes came close, the preamp didn't offer the same sense of bass richness that I could hear with the best pairing. The RCA 5814, BTW, proved to be the best choice for line stage tubes in my Rogue, providing a startling sense of dynamics that none of the many other 12AU7 variants I had could rival.

To some extent, I would agree with NOSValves' contention that there is no single best tube because they are all circuit dependent; I know for a fact that Mike Sanders designed his original product, the Quicksilver MS-190, around the sound of the Mullard EL34. Since these have become very costly I have had to find a reasonable sounding replacement. The Valve Art has done nicely here.