Best step up tranny for Denon Dl 103R

After searching this forum I am still at a loss trying to determine which, out of a galaxy of prospects, is the step up transformer best suited for the Denon DL103R.

The 103R has an output impedance of 14 ohms while its sibling the standard 103 is listed at 40 ohms. I am presently using an Ortofon Verto step up which has two configurations, one for cartridges 5-50 ohms (at 24 db step up) and the other for cartridges less than 10 ohms (at 30 db step up). I have both a Denon 103R and the 103 and use the 5-50 ohm setting.

I like the performance of both the 'R' and the standard 103 on this setting but would like opinions from owners of the 103R as to what step up tranny they are using for the 'R' and is there perhaps an even better SUT for the 'R' due to its unusual 14 ohm output?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

While not exactly a tranny (it's solid-state) I use a Hagerman Audio Piccolo2 with my 103-R. It has adjustable loading and gain. It sounds really nice with the 103-R. As an added benefit, I can also use it with my MM cartridge (just by turning the gain down to 0). Easier than swapping cables.

 

I use a Bob's Devices Sky 40 with my 103R (double duty with an SPU).

 

The 103R should be used with a 1:40 SUT. The Bobs devices Sky40 is a good recommendation.

 

The best advice I can give you in regards to the Denons (not LOMC cartridges in general, the 103 series) is to ignore all of the math and formulas and get a SUT that has a good reputation of working well with the Denon. Like others here, I use a Bob's Devices, mine is the 1131 with multiple settings. The Auditorium 23 designed with the Denon 103 in mind would be another good choice.

 

Is the recommendation for a 1:40 ratio because of the 'Rs' .25 mv output?

 

It depends some on whether you can adjust the load on the preamp input, and how much experimenting you are prepared to do. The 1:40 ratio will give you a pretty high output voltage for some preamps (10mV) but the higher turns ratio provides a load better matched to the cartridge windings. If you can lower the load resistance from standard 47K, you may be better off with the one you have on the high gain setting (30dB = 1:32). Have you played with loading using the Verto? I know it's pretty highly regarded SUT, with some nice Lundahl transformers.

 

I tried the 103R on the 30db setting of the Verto and it sounded pinched, with a smaller soundstage and anemic bass in contrast to the 24db setting.

I am using an LFD LE phono stage which is locked at 47K.

Can I adjust the load on the LFD somehow? If so, how much lower should I go for the 103R?

 

So checking the Art Dudley review, the LFD LE can be set to either 39 or 53dB gain, are you set to 53dB? That is apparently the default, so that might explain, I assumed you were using a MM stage with about 40dB gain. You could try it on low gain and the Verto on high gain, but you'd have to open the LFD and unsolder a link. It would be pretty difficult for people to advise on something like this since they don't have the same preamp, so keep that in mind before spending more money, especially if you are happy with the way it sounds now

The Phonostage LE can be configured to provide appropriate gain for moving-magnet (39dB) or moving-coil (53dB) cartridges. Phonostages are sent into the world configured for 53dB, but 39dB can be selected by opening the chassis and removing, with desoldering braid or such, a pair of solder links at the rear-center portion of the PCB...LFD Phonostage LE phono preamplifier Page 2

 

I should have mentioned that I have the LFD set at 40 db....sorry about that omission.

Since the 103R has been around since the 1990s I find it interesting that no one, apparently not even Denon, has marketed a SUT specifically for this cartridge...or is that an incorrect assumption?

 

I use a Sowter 1:20 transformer, and have more gain than I really need. The recommended gain on the Sowter page for the 103R is 1:10. MC PHONO CARTRIDGE SUT TRANSFORMERS

Actually they did, but it may have been for a very limited amount of time back in the 90's.

Denon DL-103R/T MC Step-Up & Cartridge, Made in Japan

jeff

 

I just looked at the AU 103 SUT on eBay.....they are pricey indeed. Maybe the best step would be to buy an Auditorium SUT and go with the 103 standard cartridge??

 

My 103R mates very well with Jensen 44DX 1:10 (20db) transformers. They are also much cheaper than the other options mentioned above. The last time I checked the transformers were $130 each. Of course you have to buy some jacks and a box to put them in, but that's part of the fun. I have compared mine to several high-priced commercial SUTs and preferred my Jensens each time.

 

And you are running with the standard 47K load on transformer output for a resulting 470 ohm cartridge load?

 

Yes, my phono preamp has a standard 47K input impedance.

 

I have been very happy with my Parks Audio SUT which uses CineMag CM-1254 transformers; however, it is evidently no longer made in favor of Jensens.

Parks Audio System Components

You might email Shannon Parks for his suggestions.

 

From the get-go, looking at OP's system, and taking into account his impressions of different loading he's tried, I would recommend indeed trying a 1:10 transformer first in the existing configuration, as is. Then maybe try the 1:10 but with the LFD set to 53dB of gain -- that overall combo should give a very healthy 1.12V(or so?) input to the preamp and should be hopefully to his taste impedance-wise (and, sound-wise). Could try 1:15 or 1:20 into LFD at 39dB setting. But my guess would be that 1:40 in this situation will not be best. But, as people point out, it is not set in stone -- if you can try it, might work... It's a grey area with magnetics... But personally I'd try 1:10 to 1:20 first in this case.

To these ears, the 103R (and the regular 103, too, and most other MCs I've tried, albeit with exceptions) always sounds better when loaded in a relaxed fashion; presented with a higher impedance. A 1:10 step-up into a regular 47KOhm MM input will present 470 ohms to the cartridge. But then there is the question of gain -- will it be enough? Maybe. The LFD will see with 2.5mV, and whatever preamp you feed the LFD into will see 0.23V or so based on LFD's 39dB of gain (a bit low to what's often available in MM stages). That may be a bit low for some, especially with passive preamps, but with higher gain actives and relatively high gain vintage tube amps and efficient speakers like the OP has in his profile, is probably just fine...

Beavis, how come you aren't using the Monbrison's built-in phono? Or is this a different system/turntable, etc?

I agree completely that step-ups and cartridge matching is a bit of a gray area and one should not concern themselves only with measurements and math alone and that tuning the sound to your taste by experimentation is really the only way to do it anyway in the end. At the same time, I personally feel, based on own experience, that an understanding of the basic technicalities involved is indeed very helpful and nearly always will at least land you in the helpful ballpark, or at least help save you from complete mismatches.

To that effect, you have to both look at the load you present to the cartridge, and the voltage gain. The gain aspect has to be assessed in the scope of the whole system, from your cartridge to the input of the amp. Too much gain in the system tends to produce an aggressive, in-your-face sound signature. Not enough gain, and the whole thing is anemic and lacks life, dynamics, color, the bass loses definition, etc.

 

Sorry I took so long to reply...

Yes, I am using the Denon 103R in a different system than the Monbrison. This AM I decided to switch the Ortofon Verto from the 24db setting (5-50 Ohms) to the 30db setting to get the SUT at 'less than 10 Ohm' just to try the 103R on this configuration. Plenty of gain through the LFD LE so I must be mindful of the volume pot on my preamp....however, the sound of the 103R opened up dramatically: voices more life-like, outstanding bass, excellent midrange and detail. So now the 103R, at its 14Ohm internal impedance is running through the Verto somewhere it may not be meant to be.

Any problems with this arrangement that anyone can see/explain?? Thanks!

 

I don't understand, up above you said ...

But anyway, that setting should get your load down to 45 ohms. As noted above, many are using higher gains (and hence lower load resistance) with good results, so you should be fine, if it sounds good. The gain setting are based on the standard minimum load of 10x cartridge winding resistance, but I think many find the 103 series likes a lower load.

 

I have the 103R with Bobs Devices CineMag 1131 (Blue) SUT with Switchable gain.
I emailed Bob and told him what phono preamp and cartridge I was planning to use and he said the 1131 was the best match.
This what he said:

Hi Armstrong,

Thank you for writing. The 1131 is the best match for the Denon 103R. I use it in the HIGH setting.

CineMag 1131 (Blue) SUT With Switchable Gain

Please make sure you use shielded cables between the SUT and your Hagerman.

Best Regards,

Bob Sattin

Bob’s Devices, Inc.

302 South 27th Street

Billings, MT 59101

910.612.8666

 

Forgot to mention, it sounds frikkin incredible. Wider, deeper, bigger, cleaner. The sound makes you feel like...like you have arrived by chariot. Good luck.

 

Bob's 1131 is just incredible in general. Works magic with everything I've thrown at it.

 

Man, I want some of that feeling in my house! I'm almost tempted to get a 103R and Bob's 1131 after that testimonial, at least I think so...

 

Davey, sorry about the comment about the 103R sounding 'pinched' at 30db setting...my synapses must not have been firing correctly at that time!

As of now the 103R sounds really nice on the Verto's 30db setting....big soundstage, voices excellent, instruments as they should be. I'm pumping everything through the LFD phono stage into an Eastern Electric Minimax preamp (with its gain lowered to 9 by the master, Tom Tutay) pushing a McIntosh MC 225 attached to Tekton Lores in a 14x13x10 room. Again, I just have to be careful of the volume and not set the wick too high...the system does not sound like it might overload, just get extremely dynamic and very loud!

I have heard the CineMag 1131 is a good match for the 103R.....great testimonial!

 

I've had my 103R paired with a Denon AU-320 at the 40 ohm setting for sometime now and it sounds fantastic in my room. The cool thing about the AU-320 is it has two inputs and a pass through switch which allows two TT's one of which can have a MM cart.