Best version of Becker/Fagen pre-Steely Dan demos?

While browsing through iTunes looking for the new Fagen single, I noticed that they actually have two two-volume sets of Becker/Fagen demos up there. I was under the impression that iTunes needed an artist's permission to actually put stuff up there, and I was equally under the impression that Becker and Fagen had more-or-less disowned those original recordings. So I was a bit surprised to see this stuff up there - let alone two different collections of it.

At any rate, I had never bothered to buy any of the bazillion compilations of these tracks that are floating around there, but after having previewed a few tracks on iTunes, I have to admit I'm a bit curious to hear the rest. Which brings me to my question: Can anyone recommend a decent-sounding, relatively thorough collection of this material?

 

This past week, while at one of my favorite stores, I started looking closely at several collections of the early Becker/Fagen recordings and quickly became confused! There was some overlap in tracks between them, but no two were identical. Just how many different tracks were there? Was there a single set that offered them all?

So I figured I'd just log onto my favorite music forum (here, of course) and somebody would have posted exactly the information I was looking for. Imagine my surprise when this thread was all I found, with only the original post from nine years ago and no responses!

So I've taken it upon myself to try and resolve the confusion around the multitude of releases featuring all or some of these demos. Here goes:

As best I can tell, there are a total of 28 Becker/Fagen demos or early recordings (not counting the soundtrack for You Gotta Walk It Like You Talk It). Here's the alphabetical list I compiled:

A Little With Sugar
Android Warehouse
Any World That I'm Welcome To
Barrytown
Brain Tap Shuffle
Brooklyn
Caves Of Altimara
Charlie Freak
Come Back Baby
Don't Let Me In
Horse In Town
I Can't Function
Ida Lee
Let George Do It
Mock Turtle Song
More To Come
Oh Wow, It's You Again
Old Regime
Parker's Band
Roaring Of The Lamb
Soul Ram
Stone Piano
Sun Mountain
Take It Out On Me
This Seat's Been Taken
Undecided
Yellow Peril
You Go Where I Go

Sometimes, you find small differences in the song titles between the various releases. For example, is it "Barrytown" or "Barry Town" or "Berry Town"?

The one song title that threw me for a while is "Mina From China," which it turns out is the same song as "Yellow Peril."

In addition to those 28 basic songs, there apparently are alternate versions of four of them:

Sun Mountain
Parker's Band
Barrytown
Any World That I'm Welcome To

In all four cases, the alternate versions clock in a little longer than the common versions. (It should be noted that I haven't heard the alternate versions, so I can't comment on just how different they are.)

For "Sun Mountain," the common version runs 2:52, while the alternate is shown as 2:56.
For "Parker's Band," the common version runs 2:11, while the alternate is shown as 2:38.
For "Barrytown," the common version runs 2:40, while the alternate is shown as 3:15.
For "Any World," the common version runs 3:37, while the alternate is shown as 3:50.

So, knowing all that, which release is the most complete?

None of the releases for which I could track down information is truly complete -- that is, including all 28 songs plus the four alternate versions.

Catalyst: The Original Recordings 1968-1971, on the Magnum American label, is the most complete. It has 29 tracks, including both versions of "Sun Mountain." (It's the only release I found with the alternate version of that song.)

Any World That I'm Welcome To, on the Delta Music label, also has 29 tracks, but that number is misleading as it includes both versions of "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World." (In fact, it's the only release I found with the alternate versions of those three songs.) But to include those, two songs were dropped -- "Old Regime" and "Undecided."

Finally, there's Android Warehouse on the Age Of Panik label. That's the one I finally purchased. It has all 28 songs, but none of the alternate versions. It's pretty decent sound quality -- not hi-rez audiophile quality, but as good as or better than most releases of archival material.

One last note: If you're looking for one of the three releases I named, they're double-CD sets. Don't even bother with any of the single CDs!

 

I have the See for Miles cd of YOU GOTTA WALK IT. A real guilty pleasure but I don't see myself getting rid of it any time soon.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that. Nothing on You Gotta Walk It Like You Talk It is duplicated on these collections of demos/early recordings! The soundtrack for You Gotta Walk It stands apart as a separate entity. To have a complete collection of pre-Dan Becker/Fagan, you need to have both You Gotta Walk It and the demos/early recordings I'm referring to.

 

You're correct that there are 28 demo songs in circulation. But there are 30 demos total floating around because there are two versions of "Sun Mountain" and two of "Stone Piano." I have 'em all.

As far as I can tell, "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World" only have one version a piece, but the mastering varies wildly depending on what CD you get, which might account for the differences in times. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I did a lot of research into this ten years ago and remember comparing versions on different CDs, only to find they were the same takes, but with odd differences in EQ and length.)

Also on the Sun Mountain CD, "Undecided" is actually "Caves of Altimira," which comes up again a few songs later. The first is bass-y the second has treble. To get the actual "Undecided" you have to buy another CD -- I forget which.

As for "Sun Mountain" and "Stone Piano:"

The first "Sun Mountain" is just Donald Fagen and piano. The second has piano, drums, and bass and a different lead singer who is said to be Kenny Vance.

"Stone Piano" is trickier since Fagen sings both renditions. The easiest way to tell them apart is that when it comes to drums, the first has just a high-hat while the second has a drummer playing a full set. The first also includes a Becker backing vocal, and the second doesn't -- it has Fagen double-tracked.

Now, as to WHICH of the many bootlegs has which one of each of these -- good luck figuring that out! I no longer have the CDs and can't remember what was from where.

One other thing: If y'all really want to be completist about all this, at the very end of your lineup of Becker-Fagen demos, put "I Need to Shine" by Barbra Streisand. They wrote this song for her during this period, but no demo has ever surfaced.

Addendum: Out on YouTube, someone has taken to overdubbing these demos with modern synths and sampled drums. These are not the way they were recorded, obviously. So if anyone is searching for these online, listener beware -- what you're hearing might not be legit.

 

If you read my lengthy missive closely, you'll see that I recognized there were two versions of "Sun Mountain" and even identified where you could find the less-common alternate. But I appreciate the information on "Stone Piano." I just wish you could advise where to find the alternate version.

But if what I found is correct, then there actually are 33 demos total -- including alternate versions of "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World That I'm Welcome To." Does anybody have a copy of Any World That I'm Welcome To on the Delta Music label, that's supposed to include those?

 

I hit "send" too early. If you re-read my post I addressed those alternate versions. I'd read all you wrote, but didn't respond sequentially. It's all there now in the updated version.

Addendum: We had a storm here in Maryland and I think it's making my Internet go in and out. This is why I have to keep doing addendums and hitting return early -- because I don't want to lose stuff. It's like 1997 over here!

 

Understood--just felt like mentioning my somewhat inexplicable fondness for the soundtrack

 

Ahh, okay. Thank you for the additional information!

Fyi, the 28-song set I picked up, Android Warehouse, has the actual "Undecided" on it, so that's not a problem (at least for me).

I'm still wondering, though, about the supposed alternate versions of "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World," because they appear (apparently marked as alternates) on a set that also includes the more common versions of the songs. If they were identical, I'd think the compilers would have recognized that. (Then again, with budget labels, you never know what lows they'll stoop to.)

The best thing would be if someone who has Any World That I'm Welcome To on the Delta Music label would come forward and confirm that the listed alternate versions of those three songs actually are different. Any takers?

 

I just checked the lineup of that CD on Amazon, and sure enough it does claim "Parker's Band" and "Barrytown" are different versions -- although Amazon doesn't say "Any World" is different.

Unfortunately, the CD is not anywhere online and Amazon.com doesn't let you sample the tracks. If you buy it and you get this version of "Barrytown," it's not an alternate -- it's one of those mixes where someone overdubbed onto the demo. The choir vocal sample, which wasn't even invented until decades later, is a giveaway it's been tampered with after the fact. Wonder who is responsible for this?

Anyway, if you pick up the CD, maybe you can let us know what the deal is. Would this be taking one for the team, so to speak?

 

I have a vinyl compilation of 10 of the old demos called Old Regime, and the liner notes say "this album showcases the talents of Donald Becker and Walter Fagen..."

 

Are these worth getting or are they ultimately disapointing?

I like the Dan legacy as is

Wasn't a fan of The Second Arrangement

Huge Dan fan
Seeing them tonight in Detroit

 

Just for completeness, I have two vinyl compilations issued in the 80s - Becker and Fagen - The Early Years (1983) and Sun Mountain (1985) which have 26 of the 28 demos. The two missing are Charlie Freak and Undecided.

Also, shouldn't we include in the list Everyone's Gone To The Movies that appeared on Citizen since that is an early demo too?

 

What about the backing talents of Skunk Dias and Denny Baxter?

 

I think Steely Dan could be my favourite band of all time, and honestly, these are nothing special. I never listen to them.

Sun Mountain is the other one I have - as it also has 16 tracks (as Old Regime has 10), it's probably a safe bet that it's the same compilation as The Early Years.

 

No hang on... I'm getting myself mixed up here. I have Sun Mountain and Old Regime which also total 26 tracks, so it's a safe bet that Old Regime and The Early Years are the same compilation... yes that's it

 

Look closely at the lineup. The 12th track on the first disc is "Any World That I'm Welcome To." The next to last track on the second disc is "Any World." Slightly different titles, slightly different versions?

I'm hoping I won't have to, that somebody here will already have a copy and be able to fill us in. (Fingers crossed!)

 

Well, I took the plunge today and picked up a second set of the Becker/Fagen early recordings -- this time a single CD titled Roaring Of The Lamb, on the MasterTone label. It's a 16-track CD that is nearly identical to the Sun Mountain CD that Phil Tate mentioned above. The only difference is that Roaring includes "Charlie Freak," while Sun Mountain includes "You Go Where I Go."

I thought I had lucked into a great find. When auditioning the CD at the store, I found it had the full band version of "Sun Mountain," as described above by Tony Sclafani. Then I found it had a version of "Stone Piano" with the full drum set! Checking further revealed full band versions of "Parker's Band" and "Barrytown," whereas the Android Warehouse set I picked up earlier had simpler piano-based demos. And, finally, it had a version of "Any World That I'm Welcome To" with percussion that wasn't heard on the version I already had. Wow! All of the alternate versions in one place! I thought I'd stuck gold!

Of course, it was too good to be true. When I got home, I did a comprehensive comparison of the Roaring Of The Lamb tracks with those from Android Warehouse. And my conclusion is that the only legitimate alternate version on Roaring is the full band version of "Sun Mountain" with the different lead vocalist. The other 15 tracks are the same mostly piano-based demos I have on Android Warehouse, only with additional instrumentation overdubbed! Yes, on each and every one of them, not just the four possible alternate versions we'd discussed! On the overdubbed tracks, Fagen's and Becker's vocals are the same, Fagen's keyboards are the same, and the few other instruments (a bass here, a snare there) heard on the demos are the same, too. But there are additional instruments on every song, adding up to full band instrumentation on many of the 15 tracks.

Comparing the overdubs on "Caves Of Altamira," "Charlie Freak," "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World" to what Steely Dan eventually did with those songs, it's obvious that the additional instrumentation is NOT the work of Becker and Fagen. Instead, it's in a much more conventional style than the pair worked in. I think the overdubs likely were done years later in an attempt to make the raw demos more commercial for licensing to countless budget labels.

And that includes "Stone Piano." I think the version heard on Roaring is the one with the full drum set that Tony Sclafani referenced above. As he noted, a full drum set is heard. The interesting thing is that everything from the demo is still heard, too -- the vocals, the piano, the high-hat. And I hear no difference in the backing vocal; it sounds like Becker in both versions. And besides the drum set, there's also an added accordion. (Tony, is that on the alternate version you were describing?) Once you realize that all the other tracks on Roaring are overdubbed (except "Sun Mountain"), it's just too obvious that "Stone Piano" is, too.

There certainly are early Becker/Fagen recording with a greater amount of instrumentation. The Old Regime and Early Years albums contain ten such tracks (they're on Android Warehouse, too):

Brain Tap Shuffle
Brooklyn
Come Back BabyDon't Let Me In
I Can't Function
Let George Do It
Mock Turtle Song Old Regime
Soul Ram
Yellow Peril

But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about demos that Becker/Fagen left in primitive form -- piano, an occasional snare or hi-hat, maybe a bass, with a Fagen lead vocal and sometimes a Becker backing vocal -- to which additional instrumentation has been overdubbed. At least 15 such tracks exist:

A Little With Sugar
Android Warehouse
Any World That I'm Welcome To
Barrytown
Caves Of Altamira
Charlie Freak
Horse In Town
Ida Lee More To Come
Oh Wow It's You
Parker's Band
Roaring Of The Lamb
Stone Piano
Take It Out On Me
This Seat's Been Taken

There may be others, but those are the ones I've found so far. Don't be fooled. If you hear those tracks with something approaching a full band, that's not how Becker & Fagen laid them down.

So my current analysis is that while there are 28 Becker/Fagen songs for which demos or early recordings have showed up on various budget releases, there are only 29 actual demos, with only "Sun Mountain" existing in two different legitimate versions.

 

What's the story on the legal status of these demos? Are these actually boots, or are the demos owned by someone who has the right to lease them?

 

Regarding stephenlee's thoughts that there's only one legit version of "Stone Piano:" I am pretty sure there are two. I put out the two versions I have in a YouTube video (below) so everyone could hear for themselves.

Note that the first has a Walter Becker harmony and the second doesn't. Also note that the second one has a double-tracked Fagen vocal. This stuff can't really be faked after-the-fact unless Becker and Fagen went back and tweaked the first demo themselves to create the second, removing Walter's vocal, adding a second Fagen vocal, and more drums. It's a possibility, but a small one.

Now, here is where the confusion might stem from. There is, in fact, an "overdubbed-after-the-fact" version of the first version of "Stone Piano" -- the one with the Becker harmony. It can be heard on YouTube here. I assume this is the version on that Roaring CD that stephenlee heard. This sounds like it has a synth-accordion sound stephenlee was describing and to answer his question -- it's not the one I was describing. It ain't legit. Whoever added these instrument did so decades later. It's unintentionally comical.

 

I bought Android Warehouse back in '98 (I was 17) and it is absolutely amazing. I even made a 45 minute mix of songs that sound the most "complete" and pretend it's a classic psychedelic album called "Let George Do It" by a group called "The Leather Canary" because that's what cool people do. I bought a couple songs on iTunes a few yeas ago cuz I heard they were alternate versions, but Android Warehouse is still the best. This thread popping up made me pull it out again and I'm glad I did. I understand Don and Walt don't want us to hear anything not recorded in pristine quality, but I'm glad it's out there for the real heads.

 

Okay, I'm convinced! There really is an authentic alternate demo of "Stone Piano." Now, please, just tell me where I can find it!

I still think the alternate versions of "Parker's Band," "Barrytown" and "Any World" that are on Any World That I'm Welcome To (Delta Music) are likely to be the overdubbed versions I found on Roaring Of The Lamb.

What a mess!

 

Oh, the other thing I ought to mention regarding the overdubbed demos is that many of them run significantly longer than the original demos. So not only have they been overdubbed, they've been edited and sections of them looped to artificially create longer songs.

Here's a quick list of the comparative lengths of the original demos and the overdubbed tracks. The first time cited is the length of the demo, the second is the overdubbed track. The starred (*) tracks are the ones that have been lengthened.

A Little With Sugar -- 3:27, 3:29
Android Warehouse -- 2:09, 3:09 *
Any World That I'm Welcome To -- 3:36, 5:30 *
Barrytown -- 2:40, 2:42
Caves Of Altamira -- 3:13, 3:17
Charlie Freak -- 2:34, 2:37
Horse In Town -- 2:49, 3:38 *
Ida Lee -- 3:33, 5:12 *
More To Come -- 2:49, 4:01 *
Oh Wow It's You -- 2:34, 3:26 *
Parker's Band -- 2:10, 3:10 *
Roaring Of The Lamb -- 3:00, 3:03
Stone Piano -- 2:14, 3:43 *
Take It Out On Me -- 2:22, 2:44 *
This Seat's Been Taken -- 2:36, 3:37 *

 

I really like a lot of these songs. I think if most had been recorded properly and slipped onto the first five SD albums then they'd be regarded as classics. There's some great melodies and grooves on these and I would take a lot of it over most post-Gaucho SD/Fagen. There's a bit more variety on these (like early Dan had) than what they've served up in the last fifteen years IMO. I'd be happy for them to rerecord them all now!

 

Becker and Fagen were under contract to Kenny Vance when they wrote and demoed these songs, so apparently he holds the rights to them and is the one who's licensed them to all the many budget labels. (There's a Wikipedia article on Vance here.)