Best Way to Convert SACDs?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by MrEWhite, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    So, I recently acquired a copy of the 2011 Dire Strait's Love Over Gold SACD, and I have a question about converting SACDs once again. When I went to convert this over to SACD with my usual settings in dBpoweramp (88.2/24 and +6 dB), I get some clipping near the end of Telegraph Road. Backing the boost down to 5dB fixes this. But, to my knowledge, SACDs are about 6dB quieter than CDs. So, why would I get clipping on this SACD when I boost its volume by +6dB?

    Edit: Read about two responses down, d'oh!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  2. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    I suggest hanging onto it, then selling it in Classifieds once they all completely sell out of the marketplace. Then "convert" your profit into actual gold! ;)



    (I'm sorry, this time of night I'm not at all helpful...)
     
    MrEWhite likes this.
  3. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    Okay, I think I was just being an idiot when I made this thread. Forgot to check over the dynamic range database, and lo and behold, this SACD goes over that 6dB limit.

    Album details - Dynamic Range Database
     
    PhantomStranger likes this.
  4. That's funny, I didn't realize that was time dependent. :D
     
  5. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    Not true - I've helped many an old lady cross the street...but only to see my Mark Knopfler collection...:D
     
  6. Errr.... only to see your what....?
     
  7. Sorry OP, you've attracted probably two of the biggest wise asses on the forum... :)

    Maybe you're right, ace the thread before it's too late.
     
  8. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    That's "helpful wise ass" to you, vinny. Feel free to take a look at any of the 12 threads I've started in the past two weeks, contributions to others I'm gotten a consistant "like" return from both opinions and suggestions. Now, if I've somehow offended you attempting ocasional levity here...nope, not apologizing.

    So if you'll kindly scoot over there into that dusty corner over there, I'd like ask the person in question...exactly how DOES one "convert" a SACD with dbPoweramp, anyway...? Doesn't one usually use a PS3, an Oppo 103 or 105, or that one Pioneer deck specifically known to back-up the SACD layer because Sony doesn't allow anything else to have access to this? MrEwhite, might you be referring to the redbook layer on the SACD, which is the same information on a standard CD?

    You may have solved one of your problems, but I'm wondering if you know sppecifically what you're rippin' here...?
     
  9. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I always check the DSD files with the Dynamic Range tool before converting to PCM in order to find the highest peak. There are many SACD that peak higher than -6dB, so using +6dB as a default setting is not a good idea (as you have seen).
     
  10. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    SACD from my Sony BDP-BX510 using the "sleep method" -> .iso to .dff using iso2dsd > Convert from .dff to .flac using dBpoweramp

    A decent chunk of cheaply acquired Blu-Ray players (such as my Sony BDP-BX510) from Sony were found to be able to rip SACDs recently, and I happened to have one of them in my bedroom.

    The SACD in question is also single-layer, so it can't be a CD layer anyways :)
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  11. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    Interesting - web search listed it to be "hybrid", but Discogs says otherwise (Discogs lists over 220 different versions!). Getting more and more complicated, between that and the Sony's extra step, just to keep on top of things.
     
  12. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    That might be referring to the MFSL release which was announced like five years ago and still hasn't came out yet :(
     
  13. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    In the early days of the format, 0 dBSACD was defined as 50% modulation, so would be exactly equal to -6 dB*. In any conversion from DSD <--> PCM you simply aligned the 0 dB levels, and all was well (0 dBSACD = 0 dBPCM).

    * - this was done to avoid issues with some sigma-delta modulators as they approach full-scale output.

    However, as there were no proper DSD peak level meters at the time, mastering engineers relied on their ears to set level, and given that some DSD converters were perfectly clean to higher levels than 0 dBSACD, a number of titles were released that did not conform to the Scarlet Book (this problem was actually discovered via the clipping introduced by AVRs, etc. which converted DSD to PCM using the fixed 6 dB level adjustment). Rather than pull those titles, and re-do them, Sony Japan decided to change the Scarlet Book spec. allowing short term peak levels to reach +3.1 dBSACD. This is why you are seeing clipping with your Dire Straits disc if you use a fixed 6 dB level adjustment.
     
    PhantomStranger likes this.
  14. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    Thriller by Michael Jackson is another example of an SACD that goes over 0
     
  15. pscreed

    pscreed Upstanding Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Not sure what you mean by “convert this over to SACD” but it sounds like maybe what you are doing is ripping the Redbook (CD) layer and converting it to DSD? DB Poweramp can not rip the original SACD layer due to Sony’s encryption of that layer in the SACD standard.

    There are work-arounds using PS3, or some Oppo SACD players, or more recently some earlier Sony blu-Ray Disc players.

    But if you think you are ripping the SACD layer using DB Poweramp (a fine product, I use it for CD rips), I don’t believe that is correct.

    Sorry if I misunderstood your question.
     
    harby likes this.
  16. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The 2011 disc referred to is a single-layer SHM-SACD, so no CD layer.
     
  17. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Forum Resident

    OK.
    This is, at best, ambiguous. What do you mean by "convert this over to SACD" when you are referring to an SACD? Also, if it is an SACD, dBpower amp cannot deal it with unless/until some other program/process rips the data from the SACD.
     
  18. pscreed

    pscreed Upstanding Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    You’re right of course. I guess I really am confused, but I know that dbpoweramp can not rip SACDs. Or at least I thought I knew that :)
     
  19. Lenny

    Lenny Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    You can rip the SACD to a .dsf file in the usual manner and then use JRiver to convert it to PCM or other formats.

    If that, indeed, is what you want to do . . . which is not all that clear.
     
  20. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    I already solved the issue, but as I said, I ripped the SACD to ISO, converted the ISO to DFF, and converted the DFF to FLAC with dBpoweramp.
     
  21. formu_la

    formu_la Pigs whisperer

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    So, what you do? +3, or case by case?
     
  22. pscreed

    pscreed Upstanding Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Glad you got it sorted out... guess what I’m trying to understand is how you originally ripped the SACD to ISO? I’m getting ready to rip my SACDs and would like to know.

    But either way glad the issue is solved.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  23. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    the basic workflow is to use sacd_extract and a compatible SACD player to rip the disk either to ISO or individual DFF or DSF files (and then convert them to PCM (ewww! :p) or whatever like the OP).
    Personally, I use Sonore ISO2DSD as a gui for sacd_extract to rip to ISO using my oppo 105d as the sacd transport, then I use Trax to extract individual DSF files from the ISO and the DSF's go into my Roon library.
    I like to rip to ISO first since I have large numbers of SACDs with both stereo and multichannel areas and the ISO contains both in a single backup.
    There are quite a few threads with detailed instructions, but ISO2DSD makes it pretty easy, really.
     
    pscreed likes this.
  24. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Here you go:

    SACD ripping, Mac/Oppo. How, exactly?

    Don't be put off by the thread title, Windows is also covered a few pages in.
     
    elvisizer and pscreed like this.
  25. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I'm puzzled why you use both ISO2DSD and TRAX? It seems like ISO2DSD should already do everything that you would need. What am I missing here?
     
    tmtomh likes this.

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