Better Call Saul - Season 2 discussion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by stereoptic, Jan 4, 2016.

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  1. jriems

    jriems Audio Ojiisan

    Right - on the phone with Jimmy. No way he'd be acting that out in his office, alone, if he was in on it. He isn't in on it.
     
  2. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    I had an MRI this morning and I have to say it was a little more stressful than it should have been in light of watching that episode right beforehand!
     
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  3. BlueGangsta

    BlueGangsta Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    McKean and anyone else involved with this scene should get an Emmy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Except for the non-rebreather. Gotta keep that bag inflated guys. If the MRI didnt scare Chuck to death being nearly suffocated to death certainly would :D
     
  5. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    He didn't file any falsified documents.
     
  6. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Correct, but the falsified ones were submitted by Chuck. And Jimmy created those.
     
  7. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    If I understood it correctly, Chuck merely got the wrong address from the falsified documents to create the documents that he filed. Jimmy's documents never left Chuck's house until Jimmy retrieved them.
     
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  8. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    This is correct. That is why he sneaked into Chuck's house during the hearing and returned the originals. No evidence left behind (exactly as Chuck figured it out, as Jimmy said later).
     
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  9. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    Right. When Jimmy came back in and traded the re-created ones with the originals.
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    OK, my bad. It's tough keeping up with Jimmy.
     
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  11. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I missed it too until my second viewing.
     
  12. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The beauty behind it all is that there are no forged documents as evidence, the only documents with incorrect addresses are the ones that Chuck wrote up as filing documents submitted to the state. So anyone looking into this is only going to see a situation where the only link from the correct originals to the incorrectly addressed papers is operator error =Chuck.
    Now he has Jimmy on tape admitting it, but his admission is laced with a 'this is what you want to hear' tone, along with a quick statement to that effect. I know Jimmy doesn't know he is recorded, but his admission could arguably be explained as a pacifier to calm Chuck. The 'it's your word against mine' statement kind of smacks of his disrespect towards Chuck, with a nod to the idea that Chuck is to be perceived as a little cuckoo, so who would believe his crazy story -if an outside party were to mediate what they would see is a paranoid person ridden with anxiety trying to pin a clerical error of his own (Chuck), on to his brother for whom he has an axe to grind.
    Actual evidence supports that and the tape would be easily dismissed. The fact that he made a tape is a little crazy though.
    ...but...
    The copy shop guy and Ernesto's observations are another matter though, so if any of that personal witness evidence were to come into play then the mistakes being made by forgery would begin to sound quite credible. There is also the fact of motive which Jimmy had. Forcing Chuck to commit such a blunder sends the MV people straight back to Kim =motive.
    ...but... If the copy guy is the least hazy on the details of Jimmy's first visit and doesn't cop to being bribed -no case. If the copy guy backs up Ernesto and tells all, then Jimmy's screwed. Add the motive angle and he is like, way screwed.
    Wow, this is starting to sound like the fleshing out of the season 3 episode 1 and 2 story..
    I'm sure the writers have about 10 different ways to play these cards.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
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  13. Geithals

    Geithals Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reykjavik
    Psychosomatic does not mean the 'symptoms' are variable from person to person, that's poppycock.
    People are different, they experience life differently, they have different susceptibilities, different exposure levels, those are some scientific reasons why people experience different symptoms.

    In your opinion EMS is not a real thing. You believe EMS is not a real thing and state that EMS exists as a result of an equally unknown mechanism, a psychosomatic process.
    By directly equating EMS with being psychosomatic, you are attempting to prove that EMS is the equivalent of a psychosomatic condition, not merely state that as a premise of an argument.
    Therefore, what you are saying is that EMS is psychosomatic, because you believe it to be so and because you believe it to be psychosomatic, therefore it is.
     
  14. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    Well, at most I think he'd be guilty of bribing a low-level employee and pranking his brother. Neither one being a felony as I understand them. It was Chuck's responsibility and no one else's to see the legal documents he filed were correct before he filed them.
     
  15. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    It goes a bit beyond pranking if you know the error will cost a lot to fix, not to mention the time lost and the cost of that to MV. Ultimately, I kind of agree in that it all seems trivial and petty in that it was a switching of two numbers, which is the beauty of what Jimmy did, changing something ultra minor that ends up wreaking royal havoc.
    Forgery of documents that are not yours to touch for whatever reason is still forgery, yet in Chuck's position it will probably be a serious uphill if not impossible task to get this into court, there is motive that Jimmy caused some serious financial damage by his actions (forgery)-IF any evidence can be substantially introduced. Whether felony or misdemeanor doesn't make much difference, it's the being accused and whatever comes out of that which makes for a penalty, a big enough stink in court with Jimmy found liable would probably spur MV to leave Kim -this will probably be one of the outcomes no matter how Chuck plays it.
    Chuck is a gee whiz lawyer, but he's also a little crazy, as in 'I have to live in a tin foil hut, because electromagnetic waves are killing me' crazy, so basically the phrase 'fat chance' comes to mind, when I think of Chuck being taken seriously, in court or even at a big meeting, I think of Howard's hesitance to have him meet with clients -for obvious reason.
    There is practically no way for Chuck to do anything about any of this unless he gets Ernesto on his side, and yeah the court/legal scenario is a big stretch. His best bet might be to settle for convincing MV that they as well as Chuck are victims. Even that is a challenge: 'OK everybody turn off your cell phones, ..here comes Mr. McGill..., plus it's his own brother he is blaming for the error -which smacks of unbalanced family feud wackiness.
    This whole can of spaghetti is why season 3 will hopefully be very meaty, there is a lot of tension coiled up with the story as it sits now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  16. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    At some point, Jimmy is going to lose the ability to use the McGill name in terms of being a lawyer hence why he becomes Saul Goodman. Perhaps it's a stipulation of a lawsuit brought against him that forbids him to use the name in practicing law. I don't think Saul, in name, emerges until near the end of this series.
     
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  17. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Lately I've been thinking the same thing, that he will become Saul towards the end of the series, but who knows.
     
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  18. ChadHahn

    ChadHahn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ, USA
    So far there are two pieces of evidence that Jimmy falsified the documents; the taped confession and the employee of the copy shop who may or may not testify that Jimmy was present on the night in question. But unless Jimmy kept an altered document there is no hard evidence of the crime. I doubt that Chuck would have a case but to keep HHM from tormenting Kim Jimmy might agree to something.

    Chad
     
  19. rburly

    rburly Sitting comfortably with Item 9

    Location:
    Orlando
    There could also be the videotape when Jimmy was in the copy store.
     
  20. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    No law against being in a copy store. No law against making copies. :)
     
  21. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    How is it poppycock? That's exactly what it translates to. Real, non-self induced illnesses have specific symptoms which doctors are able to diagnose to a specific physical cause. With a psychosomatic illness, a patient could manifest a wide variety of symptoms depending on their psychology, which means that they are variable between individuals.

    That's what I've been saying and you appear to be arguing against your own position(?).

    Correct, and it's not just my opinion. Even in the show when Chuck was first admitted to hospital and they had to switch off all the electronic devices, there was a scene where the doctor secretly flipped a switch to turn on the devices unbeknownst to Chuck, Chuck had absolutely no reaction. QED.

    I never said that it was a result of an 'equally unknown mechanism'. Psychosomatic processes are well known and are related to the body's production of certain stress chemicals and hormones which in turn act on the body to produce varying symptoms. But the chain of events is produced by the person's mindset, not external stimuli such as EMR.

    I really don't know what that paragraph means.
     
  22. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye Senior Member

    My guess is that it has something to do with why Rebecca was only seen in a flashback.
     
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  23. I think, from what we've seen and heard, it was more a choice.
     
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  24. ChadHahn

    ChadHahn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tucson, AZ, USA
    He dealt with that before Eddie brought Chuck back to the copy shop.

    Chad
     
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  25. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA

    As mentioned, nothing wrong with going to a copy shop, like thousands of others do every day
     
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