Better Call Saul - Season Four Discussion & Digestion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, Jul 25, 2018.

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  1. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    How much is HHM paying to Chuck's estate? (to Rebecca?) Is it that much that Howard has to downsize? Is Howard paying out of pocket or was that an agreement between Howard and Chuck that is not known by anyone else?
     
  2. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I hate the suspense with Kim's departure..............:sweating:
     
  3. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    I think it's up for debate whether she's still "in love" with Jimmy. It's a tired movie trope to parse the difference between "loving" someone and being "in love", but while it's clear she feels the former, I think the latter may not be the case. She seems pretty cold and detached and estranged (and to some degree vice versa).

    Exactly *why* she's still with Jimmy is a very pertinent question and has been for several episodes. Not even because Jimmy is "poisonous" and she needs to get him out of her life (though that's obviously an issue as well), but simply because they seem to have an estranged daily existence by the end of the montage. Again, a bit like Walt/Skyler. But they're not married, don't have kids, and Kim isn't even showing Jimmy the little bits of affection anymore.

    I'm not saying it would be an easy decision or execution for Kim to dump Jimmy; there's clearly *a lot* of stuff attached to their relationship, and even more after Chuck's death and all the intertwined stuff.

    But at this stage, as she takes on helping Huell, it definitely doesn't seem like a "she's madly in love with Jimmy and is doing crazy stuff." It's more like a case of her feeling she does need to help Jimmy out of this jam as much as possible, and also, once she takes the case on (much like when she takes on some clients working on their wills when Jimmy ran out of the Wexler/McGill office a season or two back), she also does her due diligence and, a *bit* like Chuck, prioritizes those cases above all else, including doing whatever Jimmy wants or needs.
     
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  4. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    I read Kim's reaction in that scene as another case of wonderful, engaging ambiguity. Was she offended by the DA "dissing" her boyfriend? Did she feel it was simply professionally rude or inappropriate? Did the DA's snide comment embarrass Kim internally (even if the DA apparently doesn't know she's dating Jimmy)? Did Kim realize the DA maybe was right? Or did Kim at least realize that it's going to be an ongoing issue to have Jimmy's baggage attached to her professionally in some capacity?

    I think her reaction may have included feeling protective of Jimmy, but there's more to it than that. Kim now knows that Jimmy is supplying drug dealers with tools to help them sell drugs, potentially to young people/kids directly or indirectly, potentially leading to deaths, and so on.

    Kim wanting to do "good" for people by doing PD work certainly seems to be rather the polar opposite of Jimmy's drop phone sales operation which, while apparently quite legal, is obviously morally questionable in the way that Jimmy is doing it (frequenting areas where he knows it's mostly for drug dealers).
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
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  5. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    I'm not sure we know precise figures.

    According to a BB/BCS wiki (I wouldn't have remembered the precise figure off the top of my head), in the pilot episode, Jimmy tells Hamlin that Chuck's "buyout" (or "severance package") should be $17 million.

    In the final episode of Season 3 when Hamlin confronts Chuck and essentially "fires" Chuck by going forward with a buyout, he gives Chuck a check for $3 million which is described as one of *three* installments.

    Now, are they equal installments? That would indicate a payout of only $9 million. I don't recall that Hamlin said "equal" installments, so it's possible they would still plan to proffer something actually around $17 million total. The line Hamlin uses in the episode is, "The first of three payments, as per the partnership agreement."

    Here's a fuller version of the Howard/Chuck exchange:

    Chuck: "Three million dollars?"
    Howard: "The first of three payments, as per the partnership agreement."
    Chuck: "The firm can't afford this. Are you... ? Your're not shutting down, are you?"
    Howard: "I Would never endanger the firm. This is mostly from my personal funds... and a few loans."
    Chuck: "You're paying me out of your own pocket?"
    Howard: "You won."

    So I would guess they are paying out Chuck's estate (his ex-wife) somewhere between $9 million and $17 million.

    The nature of how this payout is impacting HHM is yet unknown. Howard indicates to Jimmy that the downsizing (or "right-sizing" as he says the consultants call it) at HHM is due to factors including the payout, and a tarnished "reputation" in the industry.

    It's interesting that we don't know what has occured with Howard and HHM in the 7-9 months that pass on the last episode. Jimmy's selling drop phones, so we can probably assume the Sandpiper money has not surfaced yet (though, as we well know, Jimmy does stuff like that as much for the thrill/his nature as he does for the money).
     
  6. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I think it was fueled by jealousy about what they can afford to do that he cannot. He poured the drink right after 'measuring' Kim's office and seeing how much larger it was than the one he was thinking of getting for her.
     
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  7. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Inertia keeps many long term couples together. One or both may be thinking about breaking up but it is hard to really do it, until there is a tipping point which pushes one of them to act and break them up.
     
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  8. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Great post. When the DA called Jimmy "a scumbag disbarred lawyer", I was waiting for Kim to say, "actually he is only suspended and is about to get his law license back," or "he's my boyfriend and I don't appreciate that." Instead she said something much more innocuous like "you don't have all the facts correct" or something like that. She is trying to not mix her professional career with Jimmy's increasingly marginal activities, but as you have said, Jimmy's baggage is starting to attach to her.

    As she is very driven to succeed in her career and leave her little town in Nebraska behind, she can't have negative baggage ruining her. The exception would be, unless she was very deeply and genuinely in love with Jimmy and would literally do anything for him even if it meant her doom.
     
  9. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    If I remember correctly, what she said was, "You don't know the whole story." In other words, what she said isn't exactly wrong (except the disbarred part), but there's more to it.

    The look on her face shows it was a true eye opener for her. She really is a great actor, especially when not saying anything.
     
  10. jmobrien68

    jmobrien68 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toms River, NJ
    Kim's smart... she would have lost any bargaining power she had by tipping her hand to the fact that her motivation was to help her 'scumbag disbarred lawyer' (who sells drop phones to drug dealers) boyfriend.
     
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  11. Jerry Horne

    Jerry Horne WYWH (1975-2025)

    Location:
    NW
    Random thought: I wonder if Howard will commit suicide. That could be the final straw as Kim knows what Jimmy said him to start his downward spiral.
     
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  12. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    We've talked about that scenario at home when watching. It's quite plausible, and wouldn't be tonally totally off for the show. But I do feel like it won't happen soon, or at least until they fill the character out a little more.

    His abrupt decline (insomnia, etc.) needs some amount of explanation, in my opinion.

    I'd still lean towards no, but barely. Howard committing suicide seems more plausible to me than some wild theories like Kim being Saul's right-hand-woman during "Breaking Bad."

    I also think there would have to be a limit to how much darkness they want to color in to Saul's past by the time we see him in "Breaking Bad." It might feel a bit *too* different if, by the time of BB, Saul/Jimmy has left literally everyone remotely close to him literally dead: Chuck, Kim, Howard, etc.
     
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  13. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    For sure; strategy-wise she wouldn't volunteer that info even if she didn't care what the DA thought about "her boyfriend" (and she probably would).
     
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  14. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    For sure; it's not at all unbelievable that they stay together. But a lot of the things that keep couples together in some cases (marriage, kids, being financially dependent on each other) aren't really a factor for them, and they seemingly entered into their "relationship" in a pretty casual fashion.

    Finances would be the only of those three factors that might be a role, and at this point that would only entail Jimmy needing to stay. And we don't know what's going on with them financially. Is Jimmy splitting the rent with Kim? Is he making enough off of unemployment and/or selling phones to hold up his end? I've never sensed Jimmy staying with Kim has anything to do with money.

    Jimmy definitely is the more likely to put blinders on and just try to keep things changing as little as possible, and also assume things (e.g. a continuing chance of Wexler-McGill) in the face of many obvious contrary indicators.

    The idea of Kim leaving S&C and sharing an office with Jimmy seemed so far fetched by the middle of the last episode that it didn't even register to me at first that Jimmy was measuring an office for *Kim* and not himself.

    One thing they both share to some degree is living in blissful unawareness/ignorance, often somewhat feigned. I was taken aback when Jimmy, after Kim talked to the DA, gave Kim one of his non-answer answers ("I'll do my thing"), and after *all this time* Kim *finally* slightly confronted Jimmy about doing that, asking him "what does that mean?" It took them a year of ignoring that stuff for Kim to simply acknowledge that Jimmy is bull****ting her and they both know it.
     
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  15. Daryl M

    Daryl M Senior Member

    Location:
    London, Ontario
    Didn't see it mentioned - who did the version of `Something Stupid'? My Shazam app
    couldn't identify it. I don't think it was Frank and Nancy....
     
  16. Leviethan

    Leviethan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I’m enjoying this season, but it’s so sloooooowwwwww! Someone mentioned in the thread that Kim is from Nebraska. Who wants to take bets on whether Gene eventually runs into Kim at the Cinnabon in Omaha??
     
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  17. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    A BCS "Wiki" lists two versions:

    • "Something Stupid" by Lola Marsh (Opening)
    • "Somethin' Stupid" by Robbie Williams and Nicole Kidman
     
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  18. Jerry Horne

    Jerry Horne WYWH (1975-2025)

    Location:
    NW
    I must admit, I spend quite a bit of time thinking about a permanent flash forward to Gene at Cinnabon. These are the bits I look forward to the most. I hope there is a full season or at least a whole episode spent there. Keeping Kim alive would give them more options if this were the case.
     
  19. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    That has been a pretty regular theory, and one which I think would work just fine for the show. I don't need the show to end super darkly. Although, Kim running into Gene post-BB doesn't guarantee a happy ending at all. It could be quite a bittersweet sort of thing. Kim plus husband and kids runs into Gene, etc. Lots of possibilities.
     
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  20. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    I think it was during Season 3 that some of the writers/showrunners mentioned they'd like to do a full "Gene" episode at some point. I'm guessing that's not happening this season, but I dunno.
     
  21. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Lola Marsh specifically recorded it for the show.

    Very interesting discussion on the podcast about how they got that. Lots going on behind the scenes that most of us would never know.
     
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  22. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    my prediction: the crayons etc will come into play and will be used to both help Huell AND Kims other clients.....not sure how....i'll leave that to the pros but that's my pick and im sticking with it!
    ps I think this is Kims farewell gift to Saul. the breakup will probably drag out a while but I think shes done maybe doesn't know it yet
     
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  23. Borgia

    Borgia Do not speak wisely of this night

    Location:
    Arkansas
    Once again a great scene with Kim when she is sitting on the couch w/Jimmy in the S&C office. As he explains his twisted plan to get Huell off in court she seems flabbergasted beyond words, yet she gets up an starts looking for ways to help. A way to counter Jimmy's crazy scheme. I've noticed that when it shows her driving Kim seems far off, zoned out I guess. Like when she drove off the road and had the accident. There is something about her that goes deeper than I first realized.
     
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  24. mfidelity

    mfidelity Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I read that as Kim thinking she is done with Jimmy but agreed to help him one last time. This one last favor will end up being her downfall.
     
  25. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    I have the feeling that the full Gene episode will be near the end of the series, quite possibly the very last episode.
     
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