Better Call Saul - Season Three Discussion

Gene = Saul / Jimmy's alias when working at the Cinnabon.

 

Gene is Saul's/Jimmy's new identity after disappearing at the end of BB.

 

You dont know Gene??

 

Jummy's his own cast of characters - James Morgan McGill, Saul Goodman, Jimmy, Gene...

 

Slippin' Jimmy

 

Sneak this one into an episode ... somewhere, please.

 

Having assembled an IKEA furniture item recently, if Mike has to assemble one, that might cause Mike to completely crack up, and become a cold blooded killer, no longer reluctant to pull the trigger.

 

What I think could happen is that Chuck's case against Jimmy falls apart, with McGill family revelations going back decades coming out in public. Howard could see it as such a PR nightmare that he forces Chuck out of the firm in disgrace. The ultimate irony--Chuck, in trying to destroy Jimmy, destroys himself.

 

This is a great post. It is similar to what I am thinking. I wonder if Rebecca will come into the Courtroom to testify against Chuck as this mess unfolds.

 

Regardless of the details of how this occurs, it will undoubtedly happen, as it has been in the process for years. What began as a feelings of being under-appreciated by his family and Jimmy getting more love when Chuck felt he was more deserving has created a sibling rivalry in Chuck that has only escalated over the years. While these feelings led to Chuck's becoming very ambitious and successful in an attempt to prove his superiority over Jimmy, it also allowed his sense of inferiority to grow into self-righteousness and self-loathing.

These are the types of irony that Vince and co. excel at displaying.

The source of his triumphs and the source of his downfall is the same. I have no doubt that Chuck's psychosomatic illness is caused by his troubled relationship w/ Jimmy. The extent of his arrogance is the measure of his feelings of inferiority- as is the case w/ all arrogance. The only question is how Chuck will eventually self-destruct. You present a plausible possibility, but I believe the final conflict will be even more intense.

 

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TV commercials and the "Next Week on..." segment showed enough footage that it would indeed appear he is arrested and booked, photo taken, etc.

I would assume within an episode or two he'll be out on bail, and then it's a question of whether the show will realistically depict weeks and months before the thing would go to trial. And/or the case will somehow dissolve before that even happens.

What will also be interesting is if the "breaking and entering" charge will be the only charge that ever comes up. If so, and if the show actually depicts it going to trial, it would be an interesting exercise in still having to play out elements and details of the more heinous accusations (altering the documents, etc.) in order to explain the more basic "breaking and entering" charge.

The preview for the next episode shows the prosecutor (presumably) talking to Chuck and telling him she's not going to go light on Jimmy. But I would think under some circumstances, wouldn't a DA plea down a case like this where it's not as if Jimmy broke in trying to go unnoticed, but instead broke in right in front of Chuck and did so due to what could rightly be characterized as a "domestic/family" disturbance/issue?

Would it be a situation where the DA would want to go after Jimmy for the other underlying serious charges but couldn't, so they would be more adamant on the one charge they can make stick?

Also, would Jimmy explaining *why* he was upset, in conjunction with continuing his "I only confessed to make Chuck feel better" defense, actually mitigate what he did in the eyes of a judge and/or jury?

 

Finally caught up on the show (just started season 1 a few weeks back), so I can now read through the thread,

I like the show a lot, but not as much as BB. Definitely a show that I look forward to.

As far as the comments about Mike and the pacing. I'm a retired Cop. I went through Surveillance/Counter-Surveillance training. Loved the whole thing. Mike tries to tell Saul/Jimmy what to look for, but isn't speaking the right language. There's nothing like seeing it with your own eyes. Cringed through the whole scene inside the Chicken Place. Obvious to me what's going on. The thought that Jimmy didn't bring a newspaper/magazine/crossword/ANYTHING to give him a reason for looking around....yikes! He stands out like a sore thumb. Gus already had him pegged, but it was easily confirmed by Jimmy's behavior.

As far as the drop/no drop decision, it could be as easy as Gus does a counter-surveillance lap through the lobby every time the carrier comes in. If Gus asks the Carrier how his dining experience is/can he bring him anything else? - Then the drop is on. If he ignores the carrier, no drop and he has done nothing to connect himself to the Carrier.

The scene where Mike finds the gas cap and the phone scared the cr@p out of me. He knows the same feeling. If the caller doesn't want any further dealing with Mike and wants to make his point, all he needs to do is say "Bang!" and hang up. Mike knows he is completely exposed and busted. He should have chills running up and down his spine. Could just as easily be a guy laying in the brush with a hunting rifle on him as not.

 

Yeah, that's what I said earlier: Gus knows the time his guy shows up, so Gus is watching for him via CCTV in his back office. Gus also sees Jimmy being pretty obvious. It raises suspicion Gus. Gus comes out and sweeps by the pick-up guy, which in the no-go signal, otherwise Gus would not sweep by him. If it was a go, Gus would merely pick up the bag after the guy ate.

The only thing that slightly bothers me about this scenario is that Gus' employees would see Gus grab a bag all of the time. Or, the deal might be that the guy doesn't leave the bag under the seat. Instead he drops it in the trash. That way Gus' people just see him taking out the garbage. In this case it wouldn't negate Gus sweeping by his pickup guy, giving the no-go signal.

I'm thinking there's a chance that Mike was never really in danger. This is an audition, as Mike and Gus share a common enemy. Gus would want somebody like Mike on his side, who can be bought.

The only way Mike is in danger is if he refuses to work for Gus, whereupon Gus has him killed.

 

With your background in law enforcement, would you give us your thoughts on these questions, please?

1. What did Mike do wrong, which caused the gas cap and phone to be in the center of the road, other than send Jimmy into the chicken place?

2. How early in the process did Gus know what Mike was doing?

3. Why would Mike have thought that shooting Hector Salamanca from a long distance was a good idea? What would he have hoped to accomplish from shooting him? Wouldn't he have expected that the cartel would come after him following the shooting? What am I missing about that?

 

Personally, I need more Paige.

 

I have never really noticed color before in a TV show either. The color is fantastic.

 

Sorry - must have missed your earlier post. Looks like we think the same on this one.

As far as it being a possible "Audition" by Gus. Mike has no way of knowing that. It is probably what is going to happen IMO as well, but I would be scared to death in his shoes at that point. I would clearly feel sets of eyes on me looking down the barrel of a gun. You can make the assumption that somebody wants to talk due to the cell phone being there, but how close would you need to get to see that that is what is under the gas cap? I certainly would not be walking down the middle of the highway, and I would probably have pulled my car a lot closer until I could figure out what it was. Even then, I probably would have pulled alongside the gas cap and opened the driver's door to take a close look, then decide if I wanted to pick it up. The car, while not good cover, is better than anything else out there.

 

Tough to accurately guess, as this is a scripted show, and they can make any twists they want along the way. I don't want to speculate too much.

1. Gus saw Jimmy pull up next to Mike after leaving the restaurant. Also, there were a series of "Dead Drops" that Mike observed. Gus' people should have been aware if anybody was following them or not (counter-surveillance). The drops were in areas of extremely light traffic and it should have been easy to spot Mike. They could have been directed to let any potential followers continue until the "Boss" could make a decision (Cell phones).

Both of these could be giveaways. There is also the matter of potential shared information between the various Cartels. The Driver that Mike took down was killed, but we don't know what he said beforehand. He saw Mike's car parked behind the signboard.

2. Could be from the Driver above, but I doubt it (different Organization). Had to have been something before the "Don't" message outside of Hector's place if the theory that Gus caused the note to be left on the windshield.

3. Could be as simple as revenge and the belief that Hector's people would blame it on a rival Cartel/Gang.

 

Thank you, that is very interesting.

I am curious. What is your theory on the relationship between Gus' organization and Hector's?

From "Breaking Bad", we know that Gus and Hector are mortal enemies. When Hector tries to have Hank, the DEA agent, killed in "Breaking Bad", Gus protests to Hector's organization, saying that he (Gus) makes the decisions north of the border. At another point in "Breaking Bad", Gus tries to host a negotiation with the cartel which Hector worked for, only to find out that the cartel representative will not negotiate.

How could Gus need to negotiate with Hector's cartel, but perceive that he (Gus) had some authority north of the border, while the two groups wanted to (and did) kill each other's members? It seems to me that Hector is associated with a Mexican cartel, and that Gus is not. But why would the "Hector cartel" let Gus operate at all then?

 

I don't have a good theory. My memory is kind of fuzzy on Gus' back story. I remember that he was with another guy (brother I think) South of the Border when his brother is killed. I can't remember the details, and that is the only thing I can think of. Tempted to go back and find that episode, but haven't yet.

Also trying to figure out what happens to Hector that puts him in the wheelchair. I'm wondering if at this point (BCS Season 3), they aren't complete enemies. Yet. I have a hunch that Gus is ultimately responsible, at least in Hector's mind, for his injuries, and that is where they completely go in different directions.

 

From the flashback in BB, we know that Gus and his partner met with Hector and the cartel for permission to set up their business north of the border, and that the cartel relented. The problem is they murdered Gus' partner at that meeting. This created a strained relationship right out of the gate.

 

That is interesting. I do not remember the cartel relenting and letting Gus set up a business north of the border. I remember the cartel head saying that he was letting Gus live (unlike his partner, who was murdered at that meeting), because he (the cartel head) knew who he was in Chile, implying that Gus was some type of important and dangerous person in Chile. (From some other hints in "Breaking Bad" I imagined that Gus was a major military officer or the head of the secret police, or something like that, back in Chile). But I do not remember the cartel saying that Gus could do business at the end of that meeting. What I remember is that the head of the cartel said that meth was for bikers and that it was not worth getting involved in. I need to watch that episode again.

By the way, there have been theories stated on online forums that the other man at the meeting, who was killed by the cartel, was not Gus' brother, but was instead his gay lover. He is presented by Gus as his business partner. When the creator of "Breaking Bad" was asked about the gay lover theory, he commented that there was something to that (or words to that effect).

I do not think that we have any information yet, in either "Breaking Bad" or "Better Call Saul", as to what put Hector into the wheelchair.

 

Gomie mentions Hector having had a stroke.

 

Actually, I think you're right. The cartel at the time wanted no part in the meth business. But clearly that changed over time, Gus was allowed to operate and there was some sort of business arrangement between Gus and the cartel that had eventually emerged from the original meeting.