Big star - 4 men with beards releases

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Thing Fish, Aug 25, 2014.

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  1. Thing Fish

    Thing Fish “Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.” Thread Starter

    Location:
    London, England
    Having just watched the Big Star documentary (2012 release) and not having purchased any of their music before decided to do some research on previous vinyl releases.

    As luck would have it today (26th Aug 2014) sees 4 men with beards release #1 and Radio city (in the UK).

    https://www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=2446456aae827c6185af02cc5a2aecb9
    https://www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=8e5e8c4cb81a7e782cc613d8572b000c

    I have a few 4 men releases and thus far have been really pleased with them. Bill Fay's Time of the last persecution and Aretha Franklin's Lady Soul being a couple of them.

    So the plan is to finally buy them both :)
     
  2. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Good luck and report back. The 4 Men With Beards vinyl reissue of 3rd from back in 2007 got a lot of praise, but the label's reputation at this forum is pretty dodgy, and I don't like the way they decline to discuss the source material and other production information relating to their releases. The SQ of their catalog seems to be all over the map, and some of their stuff is quite poor. Caveat emptor.

    Personally, I'd investigate further before buying.
     
    BlueTrane, tmtomh and badsneakers like this.
  3. Thing Fish

    Thing Fish “Jazz isn't dead. It just smells funny.” Thread Starter

    Location:
    London, England
    You have me thinking now. Maybe it would be prudent to wait for a review first.
     
  4. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    If you like your records from cd's buy these...otherwise why not get the in print Concords that actually used the real masters? Imports from the US but hey they are the real deal...
     
    tmtomh, weirdo12, badsneakers and 2 others like this.
  5. conjotter

    conjotter Forum Resident

    Caveat emptor folks.

    Save a load of cash and just buy the CD version of their reissue titles.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  6. Rupe33

    Rupe33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    I picked up my first vinyl copy of 3RD this weekend at the tribute show in DC. It's a 4 Men With Beards pressing at 180g, and it sounds great.
     
    funknik likes this.
  7. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    The 4MWB issue of Third wasn't bad, at least not my copy. But I agree, the OP should buy the relatively cheap Concord pressings of #1 Record and Radio City, which, if memory serves, used the same metal parts as the Chris Bellman-cut Classic issues.
     
    weirdo12 and Gardo like this.
  8. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    Thats funny, I just bought "3rd" today too, on the 4men with beards label.... and vinyl quality is crap : looks cheap, slightly wrap and a lot of surface noise and loud pops ! I had Chriss Bell "i am the cosmos" on the same label, the vinyl sounds better with less flaws but it was covered with finger prints. I guess the label needs to change pressing plant.
     
    Paul K likes this.
  9. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    They need to stop using cd quality and crap mastering.
     
  10. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I see the 4MWB Third LP all the time, at a great price.

    Of course, the highly praised Omnivore version was never released on regular, non-collector-normal-people vinyl. :realmad:
     
    Arkoffs likes this.
  11. edb15

    edb15 Senior Member

    Location:
    new york
    The 4MWB Third was not from CD but original masters. No idea on the more recent issues of the first two.
     
  12. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    When it comes to 4MWB, if there is ANY other variant out there, that's usually your better option.
     
    DarkAudit, tmtomh and John Bliss like this.
  13. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    I have that Omnivore version and it's fantastic. Worth every penny if you love this music. And it was mastered by Larry Nix, who mastered all three of the original Big Star albums.
     
    badsneakers likes this.
  14. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I do love that much, I just don't have that many pennies for a single LP. And I really don't care about all the 'extra' stuff or clear vinyl or any of that. Just a black LP in a regular sleeve would be peachy.
     
  15. Sean Sandoval

    Sean Sandoval Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    I just received a US 4MWB #1 Record release (https://www.discogs.com/release/5980764), and only comparing to the CD in mind, I find the sound to be full and dynamic. But of course I have not heard older pressings.. I also know that #1 Recods was produced bright, and indeed it is bright. The jangly guitars can be fatiguing to some ears.
     
  16. cjp123

    cjp123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    So perhaps someone can answer this question directly, but if not I might do some digging with 4 men with beards myself. Concord music is no longer directly pressing #1 and "Radio City"--they have licensed the vinyl to 4 Men With Beards. What I am trying to figure out is what masters were licensed to them. For the recent Concord Pressing, Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman mastering did it-and did the super expensive Classic records version (same mastering for both). If Chris's mastering was licensed to 4 Men With Beards, you'd be getting something similar to the Concord reissue, except on 180 gram vinyl. Not sure where 4 Men presses their records, but Concord pressed it at United--not necessarily the best place to get vinyl pressed. I think 4 Men might actually have gotten the correct masters in this case. They certainly did their best with recent John Fahey reissues. The reason might be that 4 Men with Beards, like Concord Music, are based in the SF Bay Area?
     
  17. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    I don't know the answer to your question, but they used the CD master for John Fahey's America that cut a few minutes of music.
     
  18. mitchcortes

    mitchcortes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    I would also like to know which masters were used and if someone have compared this to the recent Ardent/Classics or original ones. I just bought #1 Record (Ardent/Concord) and I think it sounds very nice. Sadly the disc is a bit warped, but it still plays perfect.
     
  19. Nielsoe

    Nielsoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aalborg, Denmark
    All I can say is that the two 4MWB titles I own, Gene Clark No Other and Dusty Springfield Dusty in Memphis both sound horrible so my advice would be to do your homework before you buy.
     
  20. fab4

    fab4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    4MWB=bad quality pressing. STAY AWAY.
    The first BigStar album sound great the Concord reissue. But seems to be out of print ?
     
  21. mitchcortes

    mitchcortes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    I ordered both #1 Record and Radio City (2009 Ardent/Concord issues) without problems at my local record shop in Belgium. Only waiting for Radio City to be delivered...
    If Radio City is as nice sounding as the first one I will be very happy with these.
     
  22. cjp123

    cjp123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I found the answers from Four Men With Beards. What I will say is that they have always answered my questions when asked, and on the rare occasion (the John Fahey reissues, where the master tapes themselves were nothing to speak of) they did some fine releases. But here is the quote:

    "I was able to verify that indeed our Big Star reissues were made from high-resolution digital copies taken from the tapes stored at
    Fantasy Studios. Unfortunately we do have any more information as to the mastering of those tapes. I was told, however, that we sent both of the reissue LPs to John Fry at Ardent and that he was very pleased with the sound quality. I hope this helps. Have a great day.
    Regards,
    -Stacey
    -city Hall"

    So buy those 2009 reissues now--they are "out of print" in that they won't be pressed anymore, but still readily available.
     
    mitchcortes and dustybooks like this.
  23. dustybooks

    dustybooks rabbit advocate

    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    Even the 2009 LPs sound a little thin to my ears; it could just be the source.

    I will agree with others that the 4MWB 3rd is the best sounding release I've heard from them.
     
  24. cjp123

    cjp123 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Funny, I didn't like the way 3rd sounded to my ears--but that is a tricky release altogether because it was never completely finished. I have a copy that I"m looking to sell/Trade of 3rd from the 1985 PVC reissue. I bought it sealed and played it once, and it sounded quite nice to my ears. Then I managed to get a reasonably priced copy of the Omnivore Recordings test pressing issue and that blew me away. Admittedly, part of it is the pressing--the PVC issue doesn't have any flaws, but lots of times, a good RTI pressing can make quite a difference in sound.
     
    dustybooks likes this.
  25. funknik

    funknik He who feels it.

    Location:
    Gorham, ME, USA
    I have the 4MWB cuts of 3rd and Chris Bell's I Am The Cosmos . . . both sound great to my ears and the pressing quality is respectable - they are pretty quiet. I don't have any other 4MWB LPs, but from what I have read on this forum, the majority of their titles are not worth bothering with.

    The Chris Bellman mastered Concord pressings of the first two LPs are unassailable IMO - especially at the $11 they retail for . . . get those.

    There is some discussion in another Big Star thread regarding the Omnivore 3rd vs. the 4MWB 3rd and the consensus seems to be that they are different, but relatively equal, masterings, with the Omnivore being a better pressing. Having some other LPs cut by Larry Nix, I'm sure the Omnivore is great - but like someone else mentioned, it was cost prohibitive and not readily available -- I wish I had jumped on the POPMarket special when it was available - that was a good deal IIRC.
     
    dustybooks likes this.
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