Billy Joel - Cold Spring Harbor Questions & Comments

As I mentioned in another thread a little while back, after getting the deluxe "The Stranger" set, I was motivated to re-acquire most of the Billy Joel catalog on CD. I was already familiar with most of the albums from my old vinyl and cassettes. But one of the albums I was pretty much unfamiliar with was "Cold Spring Harbor." I went ahead and got it along with a bunch of other albums on CD, but I wasn't expecting much.

But I'm surprised at how much I like "Cold Spring Harbor." It's not great, but it's quite good in many spots. I really like at least 5 or 6 of the songs. In many places, even on the CD version which supposedly corrects the speed issues (more on that below), Joel's voice sounds totally different from any other album. If somebody had played this album for me without telling me who it was, I would have thought it many spots it was a lost Emitt Rhodes album. The voice especially sounds a lot like Emitt Rhodes in many spots. I can understand why the version running too fast might have been jarring, especially in retrospect, as even on this speed-corrected version/mix, his voice sounds quite different and in general more youthful.

Anyway, I've read some old threads on the album, and I have a few questions that maybe somebody can help answer:

1. I've read some general descriptions (i.e. some new drums, backing vocals and orchestration mixed down) of what changes were made to the later 1983 version of the album, which is what is on the CD of course. I don't have the original version to compare, so can anybody give any sort of track-by-track description of the differences between the two mixes/versions?

2. Related to the above question, which songs were drums overdubbed on? The liner notes credit a different drummer with two songs, which seem to be the new overdubs. The two songs listed are "Everybody Loves You Now" and "Turn Around." Are these the only two with new drums added in 1983? The drums on "Turn Around" do indeed sound unlike a circa-1971 drum track, and sounds more like what could have been done in the 80's. But the drums on "Everybody Loves You Now" don't sound a great deal different than the drums on something like "You Can Make Me Free."

3. Do we know which tracks Denny Seiwell drummed on on the original version? I'm simply interested in this because of course he went on to drum for McCartney/Wings. I read mention in past threads on the album of some of the drum tracks on the original version of the album being sub-par. Which tracks sounded the worst, and do we know if Seiwell was on any of those? Curiously, the drums on one of the songs that may have been overdubbed, "Everybody Loves You Now", while generally sounding okay, has a sort of wonky fill near the end of the song.

 

I'll go ahead and bump this up once just for the heck of it, as it probably dropped off the first few pages rather quickly. I'd be happy to hear any thoughts/reviews of the album from folks, even if you don't have answers to my particular questions.

 

i don't have any answers.. all i can say is that cold spring harbor is one of my favorites.. the first time i heard it all the way through i was blown away.....

the first song i heard from it was everybody loves you now..still one of my faves..
but its full of classics to me

 

Yeah, that's one of my favorites as well. That was one I was familiar with even before hearing this particular album, because of course he did it live on the "Songs in the Attic" album. While the "Attic" album is a really good live album and many fans (and folks from old threads on this board) seem to prefer the live versions of songs on that album to their respective studio versions, I think I like the studio version of "Everybody Loves You Now" more. I like it driven more by piano than acoustic guitar (as heard on the live version).

One weird thing about the studio version on the current CD, though, is that, if the drums are overdubbed as the liner notes seem to possibly indicate (based on a different drummer being credited), there is one sort of fill right at the end that sounds a bit clunky, and the drums on the whole sound a bit busy.

 

Make sure you get the Cold Spring Harbor CD version from the early to mid 1980s. It was mastered by Doug Sax

 

Hi Balzac - did you see my thread with the speed differences on it?

I've got both (someone on this thread very kindly posted me an original) and went to the effort to correct the speed on the early one for a needle drop CD. I can compare and contrast for you if you like. I was surprised how much I liked the album, one of his best easily IMHO, yet so low profile (and so inexpensive to buy!)

 

Sorry, I meant someone on this Forum.

 

I'm not really up on all the technical recording and mastering detail but can tell you for sure I love the album. This album regularly gets trashed as his worst and even Billy himself jokes about it at his shows. But it is really a great record IMO. It really showcases his early ballad singing style and his "normal guy" approach to lyric writing. It is always these early albums that help you appreciate the bigger hits later in ones career. Cold Spring Harbor is to Stranger as Greetings From Ausbury Park is to Born to Run. In other words, essential.

 

OK.

1) She's Got A Way - essentially the same length. The original mix has more in the mid range and less in the top (probably the whole album is like this.) Original version has drums/percussion not heard in the remix. The remix may have a brief moment of strings or soundalike.

2) You Can Make Me Free - original mix is over 2:30 longer. Drums in the first verse on the OM (original mix). RM (remix) drums come in on chorus. Piano and organ much more prominent in OM. RM fades out and start of guitar solo can be heard on fade, OM has guitar solo with ad lib/scat vocals to end (which is also a fade.)

3) Everybody Loves You Now - Acoustic guitar throughout OM that is not heard on RM. Different drum track. RM is more 4 to the floor/constant Motown type clomp. At broken down section, drums on RM come in on "You have lost your innocence..." but on OM come in later just after the "Everybody loves you now" - so about two lines later. After "...Cold Spring Harbor no more" the OM has an audible edit with some backwards piano/bass (?) where as RM seems to have better cut 2 x reverse drum hits.

4) Why Judy Why (a personal fave on the album for me.) Guitar on OM is on LHS, on RM it is on RHS which obscures keyboard part. RM has much drier vocal than OM. Second verse, two acoustic guitar parts on OM, only one clearly on RM (I'm comparing thru PC speakers tho.) Additional keyboard/organ part much more prominent throughout OM. String part on RM not on OM. OM mix louder, bass much more prominent. Acoustic guitar solo on both mixes, on RM the solo is pretty much centre (maybe biased slightly to LHS) on the OM solo is RHS which is where second guitar part is throughout. Last note slightly longer on RM??

5) Falling of The Rain: Different percussion mix. Comes in at start of RM. Comes in at end of 1st chorus on OM. Percussion/drums different throughout. Harpsichord more defined on RM. "Strings" on RM from middle 8 onwards, can be heard on OM 2nd middle 8. OM mix sounds more muddled. Longer last note on RM.


That's my take on side 1 for now. Could do with a bit of a rest.

 

When I first read about this album here a few years back, I just picked up a cheap copy at Tower. It sounds terrible.

 

It does?

 

I love the original album, warts and all (although it's best if slowed down to the proper speed). I hate the remixed reissue.

 

I would like to hear the original, sped up version. I LOVE when they speed things up to give the singer a poppier sound. The LP was on the same label as the great Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods so you know it has to be good.

 

I agree. I was so happy to find out (by reading this forum) that my original LP is not a bootleg.

I hate that they removed the backing vocals ("aaaahhhh") from "You Can Make Me Free" and all that they did to "Tomorrow Is Today".

I always think of "Cold Spring Harbour" as his McCartney album, and "The Nylon Curtain" as his Lennon album.

 

Fans of this album should check out BJ's Sigma Sound Studio radio broadcast from 1972. I think his early live versions are even better than the original mixes - and I'm a big fan of the album. He performs 6 of the CSH tracks and fortunately he does 5 of my favorites. There are also a couple of really nice early songs that never got released.

Here's the set list from the Sigma Show:

01 FALLING OF THE RAIN
02 TRAVELIN' PRAYER
03 THE BALLAD OF BILLY THE KID
04 SHE'S GOT A WAY
05 EVERYBODY LOVES YOU NOW
06 NOCTURNE
07 TURN AROUND
08 BAND INTRODUCTIONS
09 LONG, LONG TIME
10 CAPTAIN JACK
11 JOSEPHINE
12 ROSALINDA
13 TOMORROW IS TODAY

 

Yep.

 

Bingo!

Actually he has don't a lot more McCartney-ims over the years. But he's so good at the Lennon thing.

 

He did Rosalinda in 72 ?

 

Not "Rosalinda's Eyes." Different song. This one is in more of the McCartney vein like his other early material.

 

I would be interested to hear the version running at the faster speed, just to hear what was probably rightfully considered pretty problematic back then. The thing is, his voice even at presumably normal speed on the remix sounds sort of more youthful and almost a higher pitch than most of his later stuff. So in retrospect, I'd bet that hearing the off-speed version years later only made it sound even more odd.

I don't have a program on my current computer to change the speed of material, but a few of the programs on my computer will change the pitch without changing the speed. So I did it on a few tracks on the "Cold Spring Harbor" CD. I just sort of "eyed" where around a half-step up would be, so I kind of heard it at the incorrect higher pitch, but still at the same speed. Even just that way, his voice sounded pretty strange on some of the songs. I mean, the third line of "You Can Make Me Free" sounds kind of weird even at the correct speed.

 

Yeah, I hear some McCartney-isms in "Cold Spring Harbor", although, as I mentioned in my first post, it almost sounds more like Emmit Rhodes than Paul McCartney in some places.

Having re-listened to pretty much the whole catalog through "The Nylon Curtain" in the last week or two, I'd say that there are some very Lennon-esque things going on with "The Nylon Curtain", although I'd say "Where's the Orchestra?" sounds more McCartney-ish than Lennon-ish. There are also a few McCartney-ish things elsewhere, like "Don't Ask Me Why", and perhaps a bit more general "Beatlesque" or "Beatlesque-esque" (I'll explain that some other time!) on "Through the Long Night."

 

I'd like to get the original mix, but I imagine it might be a bit difficult to find. How often does the original album pop up for sale?

There is apparently a now out of print sort of "grey market" CD that came out a few years ago that had the original mix. I've read the reviews/threads from a few years ago about that one. It doesn't sound like that would be worth tracking down. Even if the apparent poor sound quality wasn't an issue, it also sounds like that CD tried to speed correct it but made it run too slow?

I'd love to hear the original album/mix, though. Even before reading up much at all on the two different versions of the album, when I heard the ending of the remixed version of "You Can Make Me Free", I thought it seemed like a strangely abrupt ending/fadeout. I can also hear those interesting backing vocals trying to peek through, but they are just never mixed up enough. I'm curious why they bothered mixing them up at all on that remix if they were going to be so buried.

 

Thanks so much for these breakdowns (and thanks to everybody for reviving the thread; great comments all around). This sort of breakdown is just the sort of thing I was interested in. If or when you can touch on the rest of the tracks, that would be great. It was mentioned in another post that "Tomorrow Is Today" was messed with on the remix, and I'm curious to see what happened with that one, as at least on the remix it sounds just like a vocal/piano recording.

Now I just have to figure out how to find the original mix!

 

I don't think the original vinyl is all that rare. Back in the 70s, without the internet, it seems tough to me but I've seen copies in vinyl stores and on eBay. Just make sure its an original.

 

Was the remixing done for the Columbia vinyl?

Edit: never mind I see that it was. Found a photo of the front cover with shrink wrap and the sticker referring to the remix.