Black Sabbath - Born Again on cd - which version to get?

I hate to admit it, but I do like Born Again, despite the horrible production and the fact that most Sabbath fans write it off. I've never owned it on cd before as I only have the vinyl on Warners.

So, the question is this: which cd version is the best?

I know there was a Vertigo one issued sometime back in the mid-late 80's and then Castle did it a few times from the mid-90's on. Being a Vertigo fan, I would love to hear someone say that is the best version. I may seek it out regardless.

On cd...does this album even stand a chance of sounding ok?

 

I really like Born Again (IMHO the best post-Ozzy record) but the Castle remaster is painful to listen to. I guess Vertigo is the way to go but I never heard it.

 

I figured the Castle remasters would be nasty. I bought the 1996 ones of the Ozzy albums and was very disappointed. The problem is that the Vertigo ones are always the hardest to locate, especially in the States. Thanks for the tip.

 

I think the Castle remaster sounds ok. It's the only cd version I've heard. Since you have the original vinyl you already know not to expect sonic miracles

 

Nothing to be ashamed of. Many one-off albums like Born Again are great. No need to worry about a sophomore slump either.

I first had it on record, then EQ'd it to tape and then years later had a friend put it on CD for me. So until it gets remixed, I won't buy it.

 

Haha! It is such a horrible production. It's as murky as it comes.

 

Nice point! It really is quite a good "one-off". And I think "Trashed" is one of Ian Gillan's finest moments outside of Deep Purple.

 

The problem with Castle remaster is that it's not muddy or dull, otherwise it's painfully bright.

 

That does seem to be the case with most of the Castle remasters I've come across. I wish that I never traded in my WB cds back in '96.

 

Other than rather generic Hot Line I don't there are any weak tracks on Born Again. Disturbing the Priest, Zero the Hero and Born Again are simply superb.

 

Plus as an added bonus, Iommi employs one of the most terrible tones ever when his guitar solos emerge from the muck. . .

Personally, I don't think the remaster is too bright. And a little brightening is arguably an improvement over the muddy muffled sound of the vinyl. I really ought to play the cd and vinyl back-to-back to firm up my opinion. I'll try to do that in the near future.

BTW, despite my negative comments on the sound and Iommi's tone I like this album too

 

You're kidding again!

I bought the album when it came out and saw them in Chicago with Quiet Riot. Stonehenge and The Dark are filler. Keep it Warm is pretty blah. Digital Bitch is cheesier then anything from the Tony Martin era. Gillan has some choice screams and Tony's Zero the Hero riff is classic, but it's pretty middle of the road meat and potatos hard rock. What I remember the most about this ablum is that most Sabbath fans were very let down and soon jumped the sinking Sabbath ship. For some reason the only people I remember who were really into this album were Deep Purple fans who held this up as an example of "Ian's still got it!", but then again Purple fans were a pretty desperate lot before the big MKII reunion. I must admit that it was nice to see Ian return to the limelight after 10 years of being "Big in Romania..."

 

I think Born Again rocks and I like the production. It's raw, it's metal. I find it unlike any other disc Sabbath has done. Maybe they should have called it something other then Black Sabbath since it's really a strange beast.

My castle remaster sounds really good.

 

If you already have the Castle remasters of the Ozzy-era albums, just play Technical Ecstasy... The Castle remaster of Born Again sounds like that...

And here's another positive vote for Born Again as an album; I think it's one of the best metal albums of the 80s... not quite Mob Rules/British Steel/Powerslave quality of course, but not too far behind...

 

I had both the vertigo and castle remaster.. the W.G. vertigo with the swirl is the way to go

 

I don't recall being "pretty desperate" before the big MKII reunion...though I was thrilled to hear that my favorite band was getting back together and recording new music. Is there any other way? I always feel sorry for fans of bands that just get back together for a tour with no new music to show for it.

 

That's patently not true. 'Gillan' were a pretty big Hard Rock band in the UK in the early 80's right up there close to Whitesnake and Rainbow. They appeared on Top Of The Pops quite a few times and had decent sized hit singles with Trouble, New Orleans and MAD and also Livin' For The City. Glory Road and Future Shock were pretty successful albums at the time. Ian Gillan was definately not in the commercial ditch when he hooked up with Sabbath. The Gillan 'Magic' album was perhaps showing a downturn and the band had run its course by then; but he was doing okay with the metal/hard rock crowd and could fill decent sized theatre's in the UK on their tours.

 

Are you serious? GILLAN was a huge band in the early 80's in UK with several TOP 10 singles and LPs and tons of TV promotion. IIRC Future Shock was a N1 record and they were headlining Reading Festival in 1981.

As for Born Again record - Stonehenge and The Dark are not filler, they are nice moody intros (Sabbath always had them, remember?). Digital Bitch is a fun song with classic Gillan humour (how can you even compare it to the laughable kindergarden Tony Martin lyrics is beyond me) while Keep it Warm is a great song with incredible emotion. IMHO of course.

 

Born again on CD: Check out pages 1, 10, and 15 in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=2642543&highlight=born+again+vertigo#post2642543


And search for "born again" in this one:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=2575459&highlight=born+again+vertigo#post2575459

Jeff doesn't like the WG Vertigo (says it has a futzed with EQ) but it looks like the Japanese one might be a different mastering. Haven't seen a comparison between the '96 Castle and any of the other versions, to see whether the Vertigo is less jacked up on the top end than the Castle (one person has the WG Vertigo and the Castle but didn't feel qualified enough to write up a comparison). I don't think a 'forum favorite' has ever been nailed down for this album. Based on the posts in above linked threads the best bet is probably the Japanese Vertigo, if you feel like looking that hard and possibly paying that much for such a notoriously badly recorded/mixed album.

 

"Keep It Warm" is the only filler on the BORN AGAIN in my opinion. Really boring. For a slower number, the title track is much better. And "Hot Line" (the other unpopular song)...it feels out of place but it sounds more like a DP tune and there's nothing wrong with that.

As far as TM lyrics go, Tyr lyrics were alright. I'm not so sure how much he actually wrote before this, I remember reading some comments by him saying that he didn't have much say on HC. TM never really was a heavy metal singer/songwriter, just a singer (great in the studio, spotty live). It was probably his voice alone that landed him the gig. His Alliance work before Sabbath was AOR, his solo album after he was bumped for Dio reunion was AOR, and I think the only reason he's probably doing metal now is because it puts some food on the table, and because he can tour as "ex-singer of Black Sabbath"..

 

Thanks everyone for the thread response! It appears I will have to just get them all (Vertigo and Castle). Honestly, I don't have a problem with that. I'd love to hear this album with different masterings, despite the crap production.

 

The Castle Remaster is very bright (almost painful). Sadly, I haven't heard any other versions on CD. I have the WB and Vertigo versions on vinyl.

 

I really like this album as well, Gillan sounded great on these songs.

I've only heard the Castle CD, which sounds alright to me but I haven't been able to compare it to anything either.

 

What I meant by desperate Purple fans was that they really had no classic music from the Purple family tree in quite some time. Ritchie had taken Rainbow into Foreigner territory some years back much to the dismay of the M.I.B.'s fan base. Whitesnake was such a third rate cock rock band that most hard rock fans I knew tried not to even acknowledge them. Ian Gillan had zero presence in the states. Hell, it would be no stretch to say that with his bogus Purple reunion Rod Evans was more well known in the US at the time.

I'll admit to not knowing that Gillan actually had some popularity in the UK. I realise that the US ain't the center of the world, but posted from a US viewpoint. I do remember reading an interview with him during the Born Again years where he claimed to be selling out 10,000 seaters all over Eastern Europe and the Middle East.

Stonehenge and The Dark are Geezer Butler noodling around with a new custom bass synth system. Nothing clever or interesting. A three year old could've flipped the on switch and gotten similar results. Yawn!!!

I love Ian's wicked rock and roll voice, but his lyrics are hardly more then average. Ripping Tony Martin (who I think is cheesy) and defending Digital Bitch is akin to a Winger fan mocking Stryper.

 

1978 - 1984 Whitesnake "third rate cock rock"?
Those were their best years musically and they certainly had a big following (which included Purple fans) and headlined at Donington, even if most hard rock fans you knew missed out...