I think the source of the Warner CD sounds fine. It might even be the master since the album was recorded at The Record Plant. I don't recall glitches or dropouts, just heavy treble boosting. I think mastering is the issue first and foremost.
Sorry not to have read through this thread thoroughly. According to Accoustic Sounds there is a new vinyl of this album (Sabbath 4) out now. Black Sabbath-Black Sabbath Vol 4-180 Gram Vinyl Record|Acoustic Sounds Any one any knowledge?
I don't find it too bright or harsh. I compared it with the 2009 Sanctuary and that sounds much harsher in comparison in the mids (as though the mid-range dials had been pushed up). The 2016 (2012) sounds far more natural than the 2009. A little more bottom end (not too much), but as I say, the mid range is much better. The 2016 does have more top end - but I wouldn't say it's too bright at all (it's always been a muddy sounding album), as it opens it up more. Overall, it's a much more pleasurable listen for me. I wouldn't want to go back to the 2009 now.
I was listening to the 1996 remaster last week and would go along with this. It's just a shame that the liner notes/lyric transciptions aren't up to the same professional standard as the sound. All of the 1996 Sanctuary remasters are of very high quality, I'd say.
As i've stated on here a few times, nothing touches the UK Porky vinyl. Anything else sounds muddy and lacks detail. I never understand how people praise the Bellman 180G as it is particularly muddy and veiled sounding. The midrange is what makes the Porky so great and the clear winner.
Until they reissue the SACD, they best I can muster for Vol 4 is this SHM Black Sabbath - Vol. 4 ...and the Rhino Bellman reissue for vinyl.
Nah. It came out in 1988 or so. I'm not sure US Warner ever used PE but certainly not by then. It's remastered badly. Simple as that.
The 1996 remasters are no-noised. IMO, they are pretty bad. Listening to the softer tracks like "Planet Caravan" or "Solitude" or "Changes" and so on makes it painful to hear what no-noise can do to the air in a room. I think most of the various Pearce versions put the 96's to shame. Too bad the 2009 Paranoid seemed to come from the '96, but I think was different in 2012. Maybe somebody can chime in.
I think the Bellman cut sounds really good. Very warm, and not "muddy" so much as bassy and booming, IMO. The Porky definitely brings out the midrange. It's a great cut. I would disagree than "anything else" is muddy and lacks detail. There are countless cuts out there and that's a sweeping generalization.
Interesting... which CD version of Volume 4 would you say most closely resembles the sound of the original US greenie?
This ridiculous, uneducated statement flies in the face of everything this forum is supposed to stand for.
It is a great shame that 1. I did not buy this on sacd when it came out in Japan. 2. Unlike many other Japanese sacds the Black Sabbath have not been reissued. Wishbone Ash's Argus is on it's 3rd reissue (albeit the latest is a different transfer). The first 5 Sabbath albums have been issued a few times in recent years (I think) but are they all roughly the same? Sorry but although I am a fan my knowledge of the reissue of the first 5 albums (my favourites) is poor despite having at least 4 cd editions of each along with my original 1970s records (not first pressings except SBS). I have some recent vinyl but to be honest I really have lost track of whether they are worthwhile or not. The coloured vinyl versions look cool are they ok?
I just checked HD Tracks UK. No Sabbath albums for the UK in high resolution just the 2009 best of. The band come from the UK and are one of our greatest exports but we get left behind. Ah well.
Compare the clarity and detail on the black box vol. 4 to say the Bellman 180G. Yes, the black box does have too much compression and a bright EQ but i still say it sounds better than many other versions. I now prefer the 2016 CD and UK porky vinyl versions as my favourites after further listening.
Agreed, I have no idea why the SACD's have not been reissued. I aalso regret not buying them when they first came out. I only have two of the Rhino Bellman reissues, and did not buy the coloured vinyl pressings. I think it's a mixed lot in regards to SQ, if memory serves Vol 4 wasn't well received. In terms of reissues, nothing can top the Bellman cut, IMO.
Correct, the '09 Paranoid is based on the '96 remaster (same awful Caravan NR), but the 2016 is different. It's from the 2012 Pearce mastering for a vinyl release and was available in hi-res in 2014. I'm still very curious as to what happened with the '09 Paranoid and why a Pearce remaster wasn't released (was one even done??). The 2012/2016 is the first actual Pearce mastering released for Paranoid. But if he did do an '09 remaster that was never released, I expect it to sound much different than the '12/'16. He went with very different EQ between the '09 and '12. The 09s are quite dark. Maybe too dark in some cases, like the debut. But then the '12/'16s are quite bright. Much too bright if compared to the early vinyl or Castle '86 CDs. Still, I find the '12/'16 Paranoid far superior to the '96/'09. I agree, the 1996 remasters are pretty bad. NR, weird EQ (the SBS bass boast, ugh).
I have and have only heard the old 86 Castle CD. It sounds great to me, so I won't be seeking out any other versions.
I'm sure this is one of those albums where the master tapes have deteriorated and lost some top end. I can definitely hear dropouts on more recent remasters. Many people on here seem to think this is how this album is supposed to sound. Many versions are muddy and veiled sounding. To my ears the best CD version is the 2016. Honestly, do yourself a favour and get the original UK Porky vinyl and you'll see what's missing from the 180G Bellman or many of the veiled, muffled remasters.
