If it's a copy tape, I'm guessing it would probably be EQ'd. I've read that Japanese LPs mastered back in the day were often very bright (though I have no clue as to whether this is true). And the Pearce mastering really is nice, isn't it? No contest at all.
A copy tape could have been run flat. But it might have been EQ'd and the production master kept. But I guess we have to think in specific terms. I don't always find Japanese vinyl to be too bright, but if memory serves, the Japanese LP for H&H was pretty bright. But then the tape transfer for the SACD could have also been botched. Or maybe the original tapes are really bright and Pearce was smart enough to dial the treble back? All I know is that the Pearce sounds like the better LP cuts I've heard like the Holland LP. The SACD is thin and tinny as opposed to fat and powerful like the Pearce.
Its clear to tell listening to the SHM/SACD Vol. 4 that the UK tape has deteriorated comparing to the UK Porky vinyl. Audible dropouts from the start. I still say the black box mastering is fine. Closest EQ wise to the Porky vinyl and it doesn't have that murky, muddy sound of the US releases. Ok so its mastered loud and is a little bright. I can live with that.
You need to check out the West German Vertigo 830 171-2 of Heaven And Hell. The Pearce was my go-to as well until I heard this version. Much more balanced and natural sounding. I have heard all the Pearces, and I will say this.... Heaven And Hell is the best one he did. The SHM SACD of Heaven and Hell and Paranoid don't even rate. IMO of course.
As regards the original George Peckham cut UK LP, I have to say that I don't share your opinion of its sonic proximately to the Black Box mastering and really don't know what you're hearing. I suspect that both had some work on the midrange, but that's about where the similarities end. The Black Box squeezes the upper mids out of reason and the compression just deadens the dynamics. It's a screechy ride without enough punch. Can't say I understand someone on this forum enjoying it, but then even here we all hear differently and all that.
On that we would have to disagree. Gert Van Hoeyen's version tops the WB CD, but still sounds too EQ'd for me and is no match for the Deluxe to my ears.
We get your point. Tonally, you like it. However, the point others are making is that the dynamic range of the recording has been reduced in the Black Box, not that it's loud. Loudness is fixable with your volume control. Compression isn't. The only version I still have is the Black Box version, but it will be interesting to see what the upcoming Japanese budget CD releases are like.
It's funny how we all hear things differently. I agree it is EQ'd but it's not compressed at all, whereas the Pearce is, but not in an extreme way. The Gert and the Pearce are kind of trade offs in those areas, to me the Gert just sounds more natural. His EQ choices are pretty good but not perfect. I think it's closer to the way I remember the album sounding. Could you do me a huge favor and list your preferred versions from S/T up to Born Again? I would love to know for someone as knowlegable about Sabbath as you obviously are, what your preferences are. I wonder how close to mine they are.
Ok, well I should first point out that I think people exclusively experiencing Sabbath on CD are truly missing out on some of the best vinyl listening there is, but as far as CD, my picks are these: s/t: '86 Castle Paranoid: Japan 33PD MoR: Japan SACD but Deluxe is right there. Vol. 4: Japan SACD but also love the '86 Castle SBS: Japan SACD but also love the '86 Castle Sabotage: WB (Sorry, but the love for the '86 Castle on this one eludes me) TE: WB NSD: WB H&H: Deluxe LaL: '86 Castle MR: WB BA: Japan PHCR-2053
Thanks Tim. On Sabotage the US WB is heavily EQ'd so I regress back to the 86 Castle. Side 2 blows the WB away. For Mob Rules I recently switched from the original US WB to the German Gert Vertigo. I find the Vertigo less bass heavy and boomy, although it is EQ'd. But both Gerts are no more EQ'd than the US WB of Sabotage to my ears. And the choices are much better. They can be cranked. The US WB of Sabotage is a shrill, fatiguing listening experience at higher volumes. Not so w/the 86 Castle. Thus my love for it..haha And alas the vinyl........if I had the room in my humble home it would be something I'd love to have as well.
Not right. Black box: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/92945 HDTracks:http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/53579
So are these HDTracks versions still too compressed and bright for people with DR 11 Vs. DR 9 for the Black Box CDs?
Most of the tracks on the black box for Vol. 4 are at a DR of 8 or 7, which is too compressed sounding IMO.
If you heard the UK Porky you would replace it. No comparison ;-) Quote from forum member Jeff Carney on a different thread- "Vol.4 sounds superior in every way I can think of, on the UK Vertigo Peckham cut. It actually has a very big soundstage, dynamics, and air compared to the Warner, in my opinion, as well as more low end. This is a cut that really shows how good of a mastering engineer "Porky" is. If you do the math, There's probably less pressings of Vol.4(released in 1972) than the first 3 on Vertigo, floating around then the rest, because within less than a year, it went out of print, and then re-released again in 1973 on WWA."
Late to the party but rather enjoy the 2009 remastered versions. Some of the Castle twofers good as well.
