Not gonna search through this thread, but if nobody's posted the amazon page for the castle '86 edition, here it is. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00AZ10ADQ/ref=ya_aw_oh_pii?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Copy the asin ID to find the US page, but be warned that it's more expensive over there. I got mine shipped from the UK for $10 last week. Not bad at all.
I tried to add the following to my above reply to @Agent of Fortune, but it was too late. I was pretty shocked to find out they used it yet again on the deluxe. It sounds awful. I never understood this. Why not at least grab and EQ the WB CD? They apparently have the rights to use the track, but lack the master. So in the absence of the master, grab the best available copy. I imagine they could've tracked down a WB reel to reel for a pretty nice sound. A cassette release, the Black Box, a better needle drop - pretty much anything is going to sound better than what they kept using. There were numerous options which would've provided a better sounding version.
The SHM CD of Vol 4 uses the real Pearce remaster tape. Have you actually heard it? My pet peeve are people that **** all over SHM CDs that actually haven't heard it. I have yet to hear a vinyl pressing of volume 4 that has shook the foundations of earth... I don't own the original Porky but I have heard it and I have to disagree with you. The legendary status of that pressing is way overstated, in fact an argument could be made for the U.S. Greenie besting it. I will say that the comparison has to be based on track by track, as the statement as a whole is very flawed. Unfortunately the album is very disconnected and the sound quality is all over the place. For me in this instance I enjoy the album better on CD, and the SHM sounds really great. If you have not heard it,I suggest you do so.
I've heard all the "SHM" releases and the one you're presumably referencing was taken from the Pearce remaster and came out in 2010 (UICY-20107). There was nothing sonically unique about this release. It was digitally identical to the Pearce remaster which Universal issued in the UK in 2009. If you are actually of the belief that Universal sent a "Peace remastered tape" over to Japan instead of just uploading the digital files to a server then let's talk bridges for sale. It's fine that you like it. I do also, but it's because I like the Pearce remaster. I just don't think the Pearce remaster of Vol. 4 bests the better vinyl cuts I've heard. That would include the Warner greenie, the WWA, the Nems, and definitely the original Porky Peckham cut. I might agree that the original UK is slightly overrated but originals being regarded in this manner is common in the world of vinyl enthusiasm. Incidentally, as to the argument that a standard CD and SHM CD featuring the exact same mastering can sound a little different, I believe this is possible, but the differences are extremely minor . Personally, I found that the "SHM" version of the same Pearce remaster sounded a bit inferior to the regular UK version. Maybe just my system but the SHM sounded a little brighter and not in a good way. Again, these differences were so small as to hardly be worth mentioning but that was my take between them. I agree that we're talking about an album which is all over the place, sonically. For one thing, Iommi was becoming increasingly obsessed with guitar tones and textures. I believe that he was doing all nighters at the Record Plant working on this album to no end. The result is a beautiful hodgepodge of sonic experimentation. There will never be another Vol. 4.
Been going through a few of these Sabbath "Best sounding/pressing" threads so I thought I'd do a Vol.4 A/B with the UK 1st swirl Porky/Pecko, and the 2nd press UK spaceship label,I was really surprised at how much better the Porky cut sounds since I have the UK spaceships of both Black Sabbath(1Y1) and Paranoid(1Y2) and they sound excellent.The spaceship Vol 4 sounds closer to the US WB greenie IMO. UK spaceship label Vol.4's are pretty rare much more so than the other Sabbath titles but I just thought I'd give an opinion in the case anyone was wondering.
I still enjoy my dutch Vertigo Swirl 1st pressing and never heard the Porky UK LP...but I think the original dutch pressing sounds great !!!
What a coincidence I am listening to this album right now for the first time. I ordered the original Castle CD for twenty bucks. The sound is excellent very warm and crankable. If you like this album I highly recommend the original Castle I think it is easily worth the twenty I paid.
I was under the impression that the Vertigo Swirl and Spaceship labels both use the Porky stampers? Maybe any sound differences could be due to worn stampers from the high numbers pressed by the time the Spaceship label was released?
Hello Tim, interesting you mention it ... but with all due respect in my opinion the shm-cd is similar to the Universal 2009, but it does not seem to sound brighter or bit "inferior" Both have a very similar sound (they have the same master) The quality of these shm-cd is really good even though they have the same master used for editions of Vertigo-Universal manufactured in Europe. Let's say we like the master of Andy Pearce
I guess it's possible,no Peckham sigs in my other UK copies,and I've read here in other Vol 4 discussions the WWA , 2nd swirls were not up to the 1st press swirls.I didn't give my WWA a listen today forgot all about it.
I've got a WWA of Vol. 4 that is definitely not a Porky. His handscribed markings are not in the deadwax. It does have the Phonogram catalog #s in the matrices so must have been from a different early stamper than the Porky original. Maybe it originates from the 2nd press swirl? I love the sound of it. Maybe even more than the Peckham cut!
My WWA has a line through Vertigo catalog #'s within the deadwax and WWA 009 scribed, 1Y//2-2Y//2 matrices a NM copy not a mark on the vinyl. It lacks the power,clarity and dynamics of my VG+ Peckham swirl. Although it is better than the US WB greenie. I do have a swirl copy with the 2nd press label on side B,"Made in England" below the date 1972,but it is a 1st press with the Peckham sigs within the dead wax,probably just a transition copy. I wouldn't expect to hear much if any differences between the Spaceship/WWA pressings
I am listening to my 1996 Castle remaster and it's definitely light in the bass. In the CD realm, would the '86 or the '09 be the best improvement? I don't want to spend more than $20.00.
I once owned a near mint Australian swirl of Vol 4 and I didn't really care for it. I sold it, so now when I want to hear the album I play the Japanese SHM which I really enjoy. Might have to track down an original 80's castle CD.
Hello, Yes, absolutely !!! A dear friend of mine who introduced me to the band in the early 1990's had pretty much all that was available on CD, & from there I bought all the albums on CD too. There were dramatic faults with distortion & crackle to be found on both of our comparable CD's, with the most problematic being Vol.4, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, & Masters of Reality. Typically, the distortion you heard was a crackle through your speakers, & "everyone" seemed to agree that that's just how these albums were intended to be made, - jokingly, where even if you weren't playing them loud, they "sounded" like they were playing loud...(I even thought my speakers had died, until my friend said that that's how it is, it's the recording, not your equipment ). Anyhow, this Warner Bros. release IMO has fixed the un-fixable, & every disc sounds pretty darn good. Crisp, warm, clear & powerful with no distortion. You need only compare the song "Changes" from Vol.4 with this set against any other version for proof of sound quality. And for around $50:00, you get 8 - solid, great sounding discs... Be warned however...Apparently there are non-genuine reproductions circulating...You'll be advised to re-read through through this thread to identify what to look for, though apparently these "copies" from China sound OK... Cheers, Gregster
>>> Black Sabbath, The complete albums 1970 - 1978 This is probably the 2009 Andy Pierce masterings. Anyone know?
There are at least two releases with that title, one digital download only and one box, which one are you talking about?
Not sure what the peak levels are for the Castle. There are at least three different Creative Sounds discs though. I have one that sounds good and one that sounds more muffled. Children Of The Grave Peak levels: 87.1/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/99.5/59.1/55/59.1/60.7 For the following disc: 6011-2 Matrix: ADFL 0ABU4<530>60112 Peak levels: 65.4/49.4/68.3/38.5/60.8/71.9/70.9/59.1/55/59.1/60.7 For the following 2 discs: 449807-2, Germany, black Matrix: PILZ CD 449807-2 [K 30546 A] 6011-2, Germany Matrix: PILZ CD Peak levels: 66.9/50.5/69.8/39.3/62.1/73.5/72.4/60.4/56.2/60.5/62.0 For the following disc: 6011, USA Matrix: manufactured by American Helix
