Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Joel Shapiro, Sep 18, 2017.
2 lbs., better spec DAC, metal shielding between analog/digital circuits, etc.
No SACD's, no stereo either. I haven't had a full stereo in many years, and I'm planning a purchase of a system worth around $1000. My planned system is a Denon DM41 and SACD player (at this point, probably the Oppo 203). That's it. But I want the full advantage of SACD, and that means DSD decoding through the analog out jacks. I already have a fairly large CD library that I want to replace to the maximum extent possible with newer remastered SACD's. While I recognize the importance of better mastering, I also recognize the importance of a better format. I was leaning toward buying a turntable for the warm analog sound I've missed with CD's, but after reading about SACD, I decided SACD was a better option for me. My main complaint with vinyl was distortion, and SACD seems to have addressed that issue. Plus many, if not most, of the vinyl reissues I was planning on buying are also available in SACD. And they're a little cheaper to boot, and I can skip the expensive RCM and meticulous cleaning ritual. Finally, as a classical music fan, there are a good number of classical titles available on SACD.
That's not a D model, they sell for more. But one other advantage of an Oppo 103/105 is being able to Rip your SACDs. Pretty much the only reason I still have mine. The newer models don't have that ability.
Where do you find this spec. for the X1000Es
I'm sorry, I was confused. I was referring to the Yamaha BD-681/1060.
I read that the Yamaha BD-A1060 uses a Texas Instruments PCM 1795, 32-bit DAC, which supports native DSD decoding.
I got a used 103 with little use on it because I can sell it easy later on due to it being the "ripper" model.
I like the 5.1 decoding DAC just fine but I do not think that the stereo 16/44 sound is anything special on this player. In fact it's boxy and metallic just slightly, huh.
SACD playback - bitstream out through HDMI to be decoded by a DSD equipped receiver.
more on CD Mode:
If the CD mode is enabled when you play back a music CD or an SA-CD, this
player operates in the following conditions and allows you to enjoy more enhanced
• Disables the electrical distribution to the circuitry for unused functions to reduce
electrical noises from those circuits.
• Limits HDMI video signal outputs to reduce electrical noises from the HDMI circuitry.
• Slows the disc rotation speed to reduce the negative effect of the electric current
driving the motor to improve the sound quality (When playing back a music CD.)
Yeah, OUT, no DSD through analog.
2 new Yamaha uni players - including one with balanced analog outputs
Sounds like a good plan. You could consider the Oppo 103 or 105 (stretching the budget a bit). The 105 will give you an edge in analog performance over the 103. As cyclistsb mentioned earlier one can rip SACDs with the 103 and 105. Not sure if that would interest you now or in the future though. The 203 is an excellent player but you'd be paying for 4k video a feature that you'll have no need for in a stereo only system. Oppo players are known to be very dependable so buying used is not as risky as with some players. Oppo service is among the best in the A/V industry if service would be needed.
Having owned a 103 and a 105, you are correct that the 103 isn't all that great in playback..but for under $500 its a deal for SACD ripping. If that isn't a concern, then the newer 203 would be on my short list as you can also get aftermarket mods for these players with significant gains.
Right now, I'm deciding between the Yamaha BD-A1060 and Oppo 203. Also, I noticed some SACD's are multichannel. If I only have two speakers, will I hear the other channels?
No you will not hear the other channels of multichannel SACDs as you would set the SACD Priority setting to stereo. I believe with Oppo players the Stereo setting is the default setting.
Nope. You'll get two channel. If you want the multichannel experience, you'll need more speakers. What you'll get is the stereo version on the disc.
But what is the cost of those mods? If substantial then the 105 might be the better choice. The 203 doesn't have HDCD playback if that is a concern for the OP.
He's only just going down this route. Why mod the new player so quickly? Other alternative is to find a two channel player that outputs DSD, if this is a must have.
I agree. If the OP is just looking for CD and SACD playback then a universal player such as the Oppo might be overkill. The Yamaha or a Marantz (if both have DSD via analog) might be the better choices. See no need to pay for features that will never be used.
I was just checking out the BD-A1060's manual and on page 42 it explains the playback options for SACDs. Seems pretty straight forward. There is an SACD Output Priority setting that when set to Analog will make DSD the default setting. But it doesn't state whether DSD is direct or converted to PCM. In the Oppo 103 manual (page 62) it's states specifically that when set to DSD there's no DSD to PCM conversion. There is also an SACD Area setting for stereo and multichannel playback.
what do you all mean by dsd via analog ?
There is no such thing ...
Dsd is digital, you cannot output digital via analog, it must be converted by the dac.
Yamaha converts dsd to analog without pcm conversion first.
They mean you use the DACs in the unit to Output analog sound directly converted from the DSD
Thank you. I know I would need more than 2 speakers, but so long as I get all the sound, that's fine. I just want to make sure I'm getting the stereo SACD version, not the CD version.
A better deal for ripping is the Pioneer BDP-80FD, which I have found performs better than my Oppo 105D as a ripper at a substantially lower price. Sadly, new models no longer seem to be available on Amazon (they had them for $230 until quite recently), but Amazon Warehouse is currently selling one (or more?) Used - Like New unit(s) for $200. That frees up some funds to put towards a better DAC.
You need to use the Pioneer BDP-160 extraction code (i.e., not the same as the Oppo).
Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Pioneer Elite BDP-80FD 3D-Compatible Streaming Blu-Ray Disc Player
I'm well aware of the fact that there is no actual DSD output via analog. Although in post #41 I did state "DSD to analog" . My point was that with Oppo players DSD is converted direct to analog with no DSD to PCM conversion. In other words there is no additional conversion.
The Yamaha manual is not specific in that there isn't an additional conversion of DSD to PCM then output via analog. It could very well be a direct DSD to analog conversion but it's not stated as such that I read.
Thank you. I was just reading the Yamaha manual. Since the Yamaha DAC (TI PCM1795, 32-bit) is capable of native DSD decoding, I doubt it would convert to PCM first. One interesting feature is that "when Output Priority is set to analog, the stereo area of a SA-CD is always selected." (p.42) Perfect.
I would have to agree. The Oppo manuals are excellent and are very specific regarding DSD where as the Yamaha manual isn't as specific.
I was just giving feedback on devices I have used in the past, I know the Pioneer can do the same but I can't say it has all the same features or performance.
Separate names with a comma.