Blue Note LP originals. Why the record $ highs with all new reissues?

While I'd never pay $4k for a record, I don't think it's any crazier for someone that does vs paying $4k for a short vacation.

As Raunch said, priorities.

 

The biggest fallouts I am aware of are in the 'artificial collectible' fields: modern sports cards, franklin mint sets, beanie babies, etc. The next occur in auctions, where auction psychology comes into play. It all boils down to defining a big fall: is it a loss of a substantial amount of money in a short time period, or a purchase that never fluctuates up or down in value over a long period i.e. a bad monetary investment ?

And this all depends on what we define as value. Specifically; monetary value. Historical and intrinsic value is harder to pin down and often distinguished from monetary value. Theres also differences in expectation between pure investing and pure collecting, with a large overlap in between. Ever since I was a kid I've loved vintage or old everyday things; newspapers, lamps, tools, cars, buildings...I've found that if something was part of visible, everyday culture or history, there will very likely be some latter day interest and thus some 'value' in it.

A common auction scenario: a record price is paid by a wealthy collector, which acts to draw future (and poorer) buyers into bidding too high for a like item at future auctions. After buyers remorse / financial problems kick in, the item gets re-sold at a significant loss a short time later, affecting the perception of the items value. The other side of the coin: the record price is a reflection that someone recognized a premium value in something which sparks awareness in other collectors. The record price becomes the new normative value or even climbs upward.

Some fields that were once hot level out, value-wise, as they reach a certain saturation point. The first thing that comes to mind is vintage kitchenware from the 1920's - 50's which was quite popular in the 1980's. A lot of items there lost value. Relatively, that is. A kitchen queen once selling for $750 might now be had for $500 which, adjusted for inflation over 30 years, is technically a loss. Maybe not a loss to someone who enjoys having it, but to the person for whom it was an investment and still has it. Military and political history seems to be on a relentless upstairs escalator; sometimes the market slows, sometimes it levels off for a bit, and sometimes its goes up faster. Some collecting fields never seem to fall back significantly.

Because younger generations have less access to owning homes it affects what they are willing to own and haul around with them. And of course generational interests in things fluctuates with time. The big question for pop culture / post modern items is going to turn on what remains interesting to future generations. Star Wars toys? Haven't a clue. Vintage computer games? Good possibility there. Records? I suspect some genres will continue to survive for a long time. I think (good) jazz music of the 50's and 60's on LP format is going to hold a healthy interest for people for a long long time. At least, well past our lifetime.

 

Indeed. Late 50s and early 60s jazz is not even "my" music. I was not even born yet. Yet I love it now that I'm older and my Bay City Rollers 45s just don't cut it.

 

Y'know, I haven't heard much of that stuff. I would expect that a lot of it sounds dated (like the 'boogaloo' jazz & soul that was trendy in '67-'68), but I bet a lot of it is very good.

 

The BNs are the Rolls Royce of vintage vinyl titles. When you find one, it's like an artifact from an archealogical dig. Especially mint copies. I have a couple and they smell like history. I imagine what type of systems the records were played on. The rooms, the people... The idea that these albums existed 50+ years ago and still sound just as good at the day they were purchased new.

 

In my former life, back in the 90's I was selling "breaks and beats" to DJs at NY Records shows like the Roosevelt. Most of that "soul-jazz" or "jazz-funk" is monotonous and sounds the same imo. Not unlike the rap noise that was made by recycling it.

 

Sorry

 

I would love to hear your theory. I am an avid collector and I am not ashamed to admit I fear death

 

This article isn't about the vintage comic book market. This is about the comic book market that tried to be collectable from the get go. True vintage comics are selling for more now days than ever before

 

Perhaps people are buying them strictly for investments and don't care either about records or jazz? Surely people buy art that have no intent on displaying it. It may just be the equivalent of a stock to some folks.

 

Yes and Picassos go for millions where as the most prized Blue Notes go for thousands. Where do you draw the line? Each Picasso is unique but there are, as you mentioned, many Picassos. Let's take baseball cards. The infamous Honus Wagner card. Theee card of cards. There are five of them known to exist.Check out the current market value

http://www.ask.com/wiki/T206_Honus_Wagner?o=2800&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com

Is that all that far from a Picasso? Maybe it's more unique. Depends on how you look at it. But it all boils down to two basic economic factors. Supply and demand. Blue Notes may not be one offs but they are rare. So I think the comparison is fair. It's about collector's markets. the dynamics are more or less the same

 

Yes by all means, me too.

 

That is my point. Collectors fear death so they hoard. It's called transference. Trying to hang onto things, when what they really want to hang onto is life, which cannot be hoarded, we only have so much and then it's gone. They want to save rare items from dying, the rarer the item the more valuable, not because something is "better" but because it is in greater danger of disappearing.

A lot of people, especially older people hoard money for the same reason, when they have more than enough to live on. But they transfer their fear of dying onto their wealth. You can't stop your life running out but you can stop your money running out.

But ultimately everything disappears so it is a pointless pursuit.

 

Oh well now I'm depressed. interesting theory. I have another theory behind the mindset of collectors. I think collections are, for collectors, a life long on going personal work of art.

 

I've been collecting for over 30 years. I don't know about New York, but in California original Lexington's & 47 west 63rd pressings have always been impossible to find.
Only during the 1980's, when everyone was selling off their vinyl collections for CD's was I able to find some, and still had to pay a lot of scratch.
One time I had to buy four boxes of common records, just to get an original Paul Chambers Bass On Top that was in the collection. It was worth it

 

Kind of Blue was never really rare. Major label. And people are jazz studies majors in school (I was one) and worship this stuff. I agree that prices have exploded within the last 10 years. The originals I've purchased were when they were around $25, $40 tops for NM stuff at Prex (no 1500s, but NY labels, once blew $100 on a NM copy of Unity--too beautiful to pass ) and at the time, I thought that was steep. Yesterday I sold my blue/white Gigolo with surface marks for $44 --bought for $8. I want to hold onto my good stuff, just knowing how I'd feel if these trends continue, but also because if I like it (didn't like Gigolo sonically), and I sold it, it is gone.

 

Well, I know for a fact many of my once highly valued comics are pretty much worthless. Between 1989 and 1993 when I was in grade and middle school, I collected a lot of comics. My collection of 1st issues is staggering. When Image comics rolled out and Todd McFarlance premiered Spawn, I was the kid who waited for a copy at the comic store. McFarlane was legendary as he used to draw Spiderman and he had a very large following. Image had an all star list of illustrators like McFarlane, Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld and Marc Silvestri to name a few. I was a big fanboy of Image comics and they were pretty much kicking everyone's @ss. All their comics rose in value and they kept going up. I read a price guide called Wizard to track their prices. Then, they all bottomed out. I don't really know what happened. Their worth all tumbled. No one cared anymore. The type of comics still worth something are things like early issues of the original X-men and Amazing Spiderman from the 60s and old Action Comics. Many of my comics from the 60s that I received from older relatives that were worth hundreds are now worth not so much, so it wasn't just Image comics from the early 90s and Marvel from the late 80s to early 90s that plummeted. They weren't investments, but it was pretty disheartening. I sold some of them when they were still worth something, so it was sad that the option is gone. I couldn't even sell them today if I tried. Well, I could, but not for anything worth my time. The value just isn't there anymore.

Oh, and when I was selling comics, the people who showed the most interest and bought the most were Japanese. They are hardcore collectors it seems.

A few of the 1st issues I still have.

 

I know a thing or two about jazz studies majors and jazz musicians. I work with them for a living. Yes they study the music and are reverential towards it, but they ain't the ones buying original pressings of 50s-60s jazz records. Most are listening to mp3s and CDs like everyone else for the most part. You don't worship it merely because you were a jazz studies major, you're also a collector and audiophile I'm assuming. That's the bug you need to have.

 

Scott, this depends. There are many vintage comics that are selling for far less now than ever. Many are worth absolutely nothing. Most comics from the Silver Age, despite what people think aren't worth much. The early X-Mens and Spidermans are worth a pretty penny and will have buyers, but you're really going to have to dig to find anything that will rake in the bucks, even if a price guide says it's worth a decent amount. This wasn't the case in the 90s.

 

Interesting debate about which way the BNs will go in price. Up or down? I have not a clue. Dont own any originals.

I do wish they would issue some of the titles that really havent been reissued much or issued at all. Joe? Ron?..talking to you MM guys!

If they do go down then will the old Blues Paramounts etc go down eventually. Seems the theory must eventually work for all musical collectibles. I just cant see really collectible mint pre war blues stuff going down. Maybe Im wrong.

 

Why doesn't this apply to Living Strero,original Decca bluebacks,etc?

 

Some interesting info, I am sure most are aware of, but in any case here it is:

http://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/rare-insanity/

 

Yes, something not right going on with that seller's eBay auctions (bobdjukic) as he is often incorrect in his item descriptions (lists items as first press when they are not) and yet seems to frequently attract bids for his items that are way above the market price...

US $645.00 for a copy of Coltrane's my favourite things is indeed rare insanity as the item is not rare at all. I picked up a similar "sealed" copy for about $50 last year.

Tellingly here's is one of the comments to that thread:

"Here’s another odd claim that bobdjukic is making about his copy of Jackie McLean’s “New Soil” 4013 now on eBay. He states that it is a first edition, first original pressing; yet, it does NOT have “ears” or deep grooves. I asked him for an explanation about how this could be, and he avoided answering me directly by saying some people believe that with Blue Notes, the “ears” are the determining factor for originality but he’s not one of them. Say what? I asked him directly if he believed it was possible for a Blue Note record to not have ears but still be pressed on the Plastylite equipment. He wouldn’t answer the question. Something very odd is going on here"

 

If you are going to collect anything, then do your homework.

 

It did for a while. Back in the '90s some of those early stereo classical LPs were going for absolutely crazy money. The market has changed and is currently favoring these old jazz LPs.

For what it's worth, the classical collectors I knew really were true audiophiles and the LPs had to be in absolutely NM/M condition to get the collectible prices. What good is a legendary audiophile release such as LSC 2225 Witches' Brew, if it's been destroyed by bad '50s and '60s cartridges?

My jazz buyers were always more forgiving of surface marks and damage. It was like they figured there was pretty much no chance of a perfect copy.