Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

The stereo Blonde on Blonde has a complicated history.
Here's a short version:

In 1966 BOB gets released in stereo. A copy of the master goes to the UK.

In 1968 Bob Dylan has a lot of time on his hands and orders a re-mix of the stereo version. The new mix quietly replaces the "original" stereo mix. Every US vinyl version since about 1968 has this NEW mix. The new mix NEVER makes it to the UK. All through the vinyl era, the UK LPs have the original mix.

Around the mid 80s, Bob wants BOB to fit on one CD, a new edited mix is ordered because at the time it just wouldn't fit.

When Simply Vinyl first pressed BOB they used the analog UK master of the original mix. For some unexplained reason they re-pressed BOB using the CD standard mix.

 

I have a frist pressing of the US BOB and the original mix is much better than the later one (very thin)....


Todd

 

For the different mixes of BOB, check this out: http://www.bobdylan.com/links/index.html

 

I spoke to one of the Sony SACD reps at HE2003 and let him know just how stupid I thought it was for Sony to leave off the mono mixes from the SACD reissues. He told me that there had been discussion about including the mono mixes, but he couldn't tell me why they were ultimately left off (even on discs like Freewheelin, that don't have multichannel mixes).

I also very publicly slammed one of the top Sony records execs at a panel on the SACD format. He of course denied any resonsibility for leaving off the mono mixes, claiming it was an artistic decision made by the SACD producers.

Personally, I suspect that Sony is trying to push the multichannel side of SACD and therefore thought including 5.1 mixes had far more sex appeal (or the audio equivalent) than including the mono mixes that collectors have been clamoring for lo these many years. Of course, that still wouldn't explain why they couldn't include all three mixes (mono, stereo and 5.1) on the SACD layer, since there ought to be enough room.

Hopefully somebody at Sony will get a clue and allow Sundazed to reissue the mono mixes on CD (hyrbid SACD is probably too much to hope for) and sell them through their Kustom Shop (along with the mono mixes of the first five Byrds albums).

 

While Sony is an easy target on the decisions regarding the SACD releases, I have a feeling that Dylan & his management have a say in this.

 

ditto, they're great.

 

Thanks guys for the heads up on the two different stereo BoB mixes from Simply Vinyl. Shame on them for using the CD mix on the second pressing. That 180 gram LP, the U.K. CBS label, had me drooling. I will check out the dead wax matrix number, next time I'm in a&b sound, but I won't expect anything.

What version of the stereo mix is my early 1970s Japanese LP pressing?

 

I'd guess it's the U.K. stereo mix. But, I'm guessing!

 

My two cents: as you can see, folks have been enthusiastic about the Sundazed mono issues, and I have too; but Blonde on Blonde was not one of the good ones. There was dissent & argument about this when it was released, wch you could revisit, on this forum. To my ears the sound on Sundazed's Blonde is rather pale compared to the actual 1960s issues. That said, it's mint condition! -- and cheap, and worth having for archival reasons alone, if you like this album a lot!

Peace

 

Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

Just got back from Edmonton. While I was up there working at the Edmonton Folk Music Festival I dropped into Audio Ark and chatted with their vinyl expert. He informed me that they have sold many copies of the mono Sundazed BoB with no complaints. That was good enough for me. Audio Ark has some very demanding vinyl buyers. I purchased a copy.

I'm just listening to Side 1 now. The mono mix sounds great.
________________________

I did some digging around on Google. The Claudia Cardinale photo was removed from the inside of Blonde On Blonde for legal reasons.

Here are shots of the original and the current Blonde On Blonde.

 

Glad you got the "BoB" mono, it's sure a kick. I've been more than
pleased with the Sundazed vinyl and their titles.

 

Re: Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

Well, nothing sounds "great" except by comparison to something. I'm comparing Sundazed's mono to a near-mint mono from the 60s. Sundazed generally does great work but perhaps the mono BoB tapes have deteriorated.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

The mono mix sounds great...compared to the stereo mix on my Japanese copy of BoB. I have never heard the original mono LP. It probably is better. Considering the master tape is now what, 37 years old.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. And as you have said, there have been different opinions. I did exactly what you have done, direct comparison to a mono 360 sound BOB and found the Sundazed is practically identical. In fact, some people in this forum thought going for identical sound was the wrong approach.
AGAIN.....
Vinyl playback has inherent variables that sometimes are not reproducible from system to system. I could go to your house and listen to the comparisons and agree 100% percent with you. Then, I take the same two records, play them in my system and come to the exact opposite conclusion.
That unfortunately is the nature of the beast.

 

Yep, you can expect that after Bob approved the mono mix the LP was cut from a next generation master that was further compressed, bass limited and perhaps EQ's to meet the pressing requirements of the day. The current CD's and SACD's are derived from a different pre-mix remaster from the 4 track masters. Since I understand that the mono elements are gone, one could not reproduce the mono mix from the existing 4 track masters.

Richard.

 

I for one was unaware that the original mono masters "are gone." Has Bob Irwin stated what sources he used for the Sundazed mono LP? Also, if he had access to the 4-track masters, couldn't he have made a mono mix himself?

 

Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

Your 2¢ are appreciated. Really. Could you be just a little more specific re: your comment that the Sundazed issue is "rather pale" compared to the original? All that I've read would indicate that the reissue is *very close* to the original.

 

Re: Re: Re: Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde & G.Hits 180 gram LPs. Comments please.

Rontokyo: I would if I could! I lack the technical knowledge, frankly, to speculate on what exactly goes on with those LPs. And as other members have said, ya never know how things will sound -- on other people's ears as well as their speakers.

I played the Sundazed LPs against a CD dub of a mono issue and I thought there was more "life" in the dub. But I might mention that I don't really prefer the mono "Blonde" anyway -- the stereo is much more lifelike -- and the differences in the editing aren't as important to me, here, as they are with say "Hiway 61".

I've pushed this before but there's a swell series of articles online about the minutiae of the mixes for Dylan's "3" midsixties effusions:

http://www.rdf.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

This site is truly scholarly and well put together. It's by Roger Ford. He thinks that all told, the "Blonde" SACD is the best-balanced AND truest to the original mixes -- specifically joining the strengths of the mono and stereo mixes -- and I definitely agree (actually there are several stereo mixes ... cf. Roger Ford! I refer you to him!)

Keep a good head & carry a lightbulb,

 

Rontokyo: I did not state that the mono master was gone. That mono master was used by Bob Irwin for the SUNDAZED release. What I stated was that the various elements Bob and Columbia Records used to create the mono mix are gone, or if not gone, not in any organized form that could be used to recreate the mono mix that Bob was involved with putting together from such elements. Some were overdubs to fix guitar mistakes, etc. Sure one could put together a "better sounding" mono mix from the existing 4 track elements, but it could not duplicate the original mono mix. Sorry if my previous comment did not communicate that more clearly.

Richard.

 

I follow what you're saying Richard. As Bob Irwin stated in an interview with Roger Ford, "The final mono mix downs were reel-assembled to create the cutting master, ie, a first-generation tape".

He further stated, "There were actually three (partial) sets of mono masters created for the album before the official release. Very confusing, very difficult to sort out. At first glance, it would just appear to be a slight EQ difference between mixes, but eventually a very subtle change in the mix itself would become apparent...a guitar raised a half db or so from the previous mix, or a very slight level tweak in the keyboards, etc..."

According to Mr. Irwin, the four separate master reels (one for each album side), as well as "all earlier versions are intact...".

Link to complete interview: Bob Irwin with Roger Ford