Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave Gilmour's Cat, Nov 2, 2016.
The mind boggles -- thanks for the insight!
An 8 discer with:
2 discs of 78 Europe and US highlights
Rundown tour rehearsals
Street Legal piano sessions
would be ideal.
They don't exist. Sorry.
There were some Street Legal songs tried at Rundown and tape exists, but that's it.
I think that the rehearsals are a little over hyped here, although they can hide some gems in the tons of cassettes/reels. I'd like to see more a full release of the Europe /US 1981 tours, where the shows were multitracked and the set lists varied night by night.
The 1978 tour Rundown Rehearsals that have been heard were leaked because copies were retained by one of the tour musicians for reference to learn parts and then later on some of them were passed on to somebody else for another reason and then they eventually leaked out. That musician still has more material, as does the source of the leak, however this is just a fraction of the material recorded at Rundown and that particular musician only had copies of those tapes as he was involved in recording at that particular time.
I wouldn't expect an official release to mirror the Rundown Rehearsal Bootleg releases in any particular way. It would look very different.
Bob Dylan's Street-Legal piano demos – are we actually sure these EXIST?
I am curious about the so called secular songs from the Shot of Love sessions that were not included in this BS set. Does anyone know how many of these are completed original songs?
Essentially Fur Slippers and The King is on The Throne are the uncirculated original songs.
I'd sure love to hear the Dylan/Dead rehearsals get an official release. It's really fun to hear them playing such range of music from Bob's career in such a loose, intimate environment. Especially love it when Jerry breaks out the banjo...often reminds me of a Basement Tapes vibe. Dylan is in great voice as well, compared to his singing at the actual shows (IMO.) It's really a shame they played huge stadiums on this tour, because I think if they could have pulled off smaller, more intimate venues this collaboration could have shined.
There are other song titles included in Heylin's new book among the Rundown Tapes in the era that seem to be originals. Not always clear how complete they are.
80 Rundown Tapes don't belong to the Shot of Love sessions. Early 1981 Rundown sessions were generally covers.
Yep. Sort of. But much of "Shot of Love" was recorded at Rundown. So it's hard to draw an absolutely clear line, isn't it?
The first ones, 18 September 1980-31 October 1980 were "rehearsals" for the November-December concerts. A lot of released songs and covers were also rehearsed. The true recordings started on 13th March 1981 (Heylin ).
There are 'originals' on there, described (to me) as early ideas for songs with bits of lyrics rather than finished songs.
Yes, for sure, although we have those in pretty good quality already so I'm much more interested in hearing sessions, rehearsals and the like that I haven't heard or which are currently circulating in poor quality.
Never understand why anyone wants an 'official' release of something that's already out there or gets excited by that prospect in preference to uncirculating material. "I'd love to see the Supper Club soundboards get an official release" etc...
What does 'official' mean? That the record company that Bob Dylan has signed for puts something out rather than one he hasn't?
There's plenty that hasn't been heard. Stick with that.
I think we’ve debated about this before. I agree with you for the most part, but I think most people say this in hopes of an upgrade in quality (or pro-shot video in the case of Supper Club). I’m thankful they officially released Isle of Wight and would’ve much preferred that over something like another “unheard” 1963 acoustic show.
The proportion of people who buy bootlegs compared to official releases of the same stuff is pretty small.Nugs have said that their biggest sellers are the most available and best known bootlegs.To put it into a personal context I have never bought a Dylan bootleg but have bought every volume of the Bootleg Series.
I've expressed such sentiments, so I'll try to explain. I wouldn't say I prefer booted material to be released over unheard recordings, but if that booted material is important and of high quality, I definitely want it officially released -- in addition to the best uncirculating stuff. It shouldn't matter whether it's "out there" or not -- the best material should be given official release. My reasons are three: (1) Just because something "circulates" doesn't mean every interested fan has access to it, especially on factory-pressed CD; (2) Official release will often (not always, admittedly) offer an upgrade in sound; and (3) as a fan, I actually care about the historical record being created by Sony for Bob's career. It may not seem important right now, in the "it's out there"/"just YouTube it" atmosphere we live in, but 100 years from now (if indeed people are talking about 20th century rock music at all) they are going to go to his official output first, and I want his canon to be as complete as possible.
Simply put, yes. Imagine if BS11 had been released and left off "I'm Not There" and "Sign On The Cross." Fans would have been outraged -- and I think the anger would have been justified. Sure, you could argue that one song is available on an obscure soundtrack album, and the other has been booted in nearly perfect quality. But wouldn't it leave BS11 as a flawed and incomplete portrait of the Basement Tapes? How things are released matters -- it's part of the pathology of fandom -- of mine, anyway. I know that I can get Town Hall 1963 and Carnegie Hall 1963 in perfect sound on a boot -- I have both -- but I'd still be overjoyed if they got official release, because they're important recordings and deserve a spot in the canon. Doesn't mean I don't want new unheard stuff released too.
The Dylan well is apparently bottomless, and I think we're all thrilled to get new surprises year after year. We got a great example of your philosophy on BS13; it would have been very easy (and safe) for them to have included the commonly-booted take of "Caribbean Wind" -- and probably no one would have complained. But they found a different take, and decided it would be more interesting -- and thank god they did, because it's amazing! But at the same time, they could have said, "Eh, all the fans have 'Yonder Comes Sin', we don't need to repeat it." But they didn't -- and thank god for THAT, because we got a major upgrade in sound.
In summary, I'm not hard line on either side -- I just want the BEST material to get released, whether I've heard it a million times or never before. New stuff is always great, of course, but even the most common boots are still "new" to the average fan.
@Mbd77 @Sean Murdock
I want to hear the stuff I've never heard before. That's of course a priority. But I'd love to see all periods covered, and that includes stuff that has been booted already. I think there can be room for it all.
Let's take for example Dylan & The Dead. There's nothing really unheard, but of course sound quality upgrades. Put it all together in a nice box, and release it in the spring or summer. It's no different than getting a nice reissue/remaster of an album you already have.
Similarly, do that with the 1960 and 1961 tapes.
Beyond that (and the Supper Club), I'm kinda struggling to think of another period so well covered.
I also prefer things to be officially released. I'm not even gonna go far to explain it. It's just a preference, maybe a bit arbitrary. Especially with the copyright dumps, I love how my Dylan bootleg collection (which is all organized as one album in iTunes, chronologically) has been shrinking. All things considered, there's very little left there from '63 to '68 (a lot of Cutting Edge and Basement scraps, other bits and pieces, oh and those 1965 live tapes that just came out).
Speaking of Dylan & The Dead, there's also Bob's appearances with the band in 1989 and 2003 (and one from 1994). At the very least, I think the 2003 shows were all pressed on CD, minus Bob's songs. Perhaps gather all of them up as a bonus on a nice Dylan & The Dead box?
Excellent post Sean. Thankyou!
For me it's about audio quality -- with the archival releases (Bootleg Series etc.), it's almost always an upgrade from the boots to have something excavated from the earliest possible tape sources, remixed (where possible), and remastered. I appreciate the "stamp of approval" that something gets when it's officially released too, and the fact that it's officially on the record as part of Dylan's legacy, but the audio quality is still the key factor for me.
Could Supper Club see that significant of an upgrade sonically? I bet it would be noticeable. What couldn't be avoided, though, are Dylan's angular vocal delivery and harsh acoustic leads. Man, some of that stuff on the Supper Club tapes really is one notch too far, imho.
I just dont see that the Dylan camp will do a BS 14 that is so close to the years of the BS 13. It hasnt been the practice throughout this series. One thing that has remained a constant is that they skip around time periods quite a bit.
Is it possible they will go with something from the 90s (What about Toads place? A complete pro soundboard along with a couple of other discs of Dylan covers that are difficult to find. Call it: "BS 14: Dylan: The Covers")
Or even the 00's? Id really love to see at least a couple of professionally recorded concerts from the best years of the Charlie and Larry years in the 00's.
I don't know about that -- BS10, BS11, BS12, and Live 1966 Complete were all from a pretty short time span (mid '60s through '71). And BS09 was a '60s release too. Seems to me that it's a done deal that we'll be getting something from 1974-1976 next, just considering the rumors of a documentary tie-in.
Let's not forget also that official releases spur on public discussion much more than bootlegs do. Look at the Trouble No More release. There are lots of boots out there of these shows (and some of the studio stuff) but that whole period remained stuck in the "this period sucks" category for most people. With the official BS release you can see lots of positive reviews and a re-evaluation of the quality of this music. That would never have happened without the BS release.
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