Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DeeThomaz, Sep 24, 2015.
It's easy to assume, albeit in error, that Dylan Inc is embarrassed by the Sermons to a degree.
Listening to an entire gospel show without Bob's rants is like watching the movie Network without Howard Beale's rants.
If Dylan didn't care one way or the other about whether to include the sermons in this release, isn't it reasonable to conclude that the people in the Dylan organization are lying when they say that Dylan didn't want the sermons included?
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here--and I suppose at this point I need to look up the source for this factoid--but I'm fairly certain that at least one recent article stated that Dylan, to at least some degree, opposed inclusion of the stage sermons.
The reason that nugget of information stuck in my head is because, in recent years, Dylan's people tend to go out of their way emphasize Dylan's utter apathy for these vault releases.
The result is generally that when an artist makes some type of unpopular decision, somebody within his organization can be designated as the fall guy. One relatively recent example is the Walmart-exclusive Bruce Springsteen compilation; when fans found it hypocritcal that Springsteen made such an agreement with a famously anti-union retailer, Bruce effectively blamed the decision on Thrill Hill office miscommunication.
I guess that what I'm trying to say is that if Jeff Rosen made the ultimate decision to ax any use of Dylan's original sermons, and that decision proved unpopular, I wouldn't expect Rosen to shift the blame to Dylan. (But, for all I know, Rosen--or somebody in the Dylan organization--has been pumping gas for the past couple of months after talking out of school.)
I just haven't had the time to keep up with this thread (maybe someone should post a best-of the thread ), so I may have missed it, but has Jeff Rosen said that Dylan didn't want the sermons, are you just guessing?
Well, Santa did agree and came very early this year.
And boy oh boy, is Toronto a great show (quite a year for Toronto! Argos. TFC. Maple Leafs. Dylan.)
So I finally relented and picked up the Deluxe after spinning the two-disc for a month straight. Wow, there’s a lot of good stuff in here.
But can anyone enlighten me as to why “Caribbean Wind” is so highly revered on this forum? Both the live and pedal steel versions are nice, but the way some people praise them, you’d think they were the main highlight (pedal steel especially). It’s a great chorus, but the verses seem to drag a bit. Definitely comes across as a rough draft imo.
One performance that blew me away that I can’t recall seeing mention of... “I Believe in You” from Earl’s Court 81. Holy s#!t! The shifted emphasised beat in the rhythm section is awesome! I literally exclaimed, “Hell yeah!” when listening.
I think that's spossed 2 B..."Heaven yeah!"
Ain’t gonna go to Hell for anybody... cept Bob.
Maybe they simply want the listeners to focus on the music. If the sermons had been included in the audio, virtually EVERY word written about the set, and ALL of the media attention would have focused exclusively on the sermons - and probably destroyed the impact of the set. I doubt it was about embarrassment - otherwise they would not have used an actor and the film production to include them. Indeed, that presentation pulls the public and critical attention away from the sermons and leaves it on the music.
Sheeez...when I get some time, maybe I'll go back and look for the article which, at least, strongly suggested Dylan's opposition to the inclusion of his original sermons. If I remember correctly, it was a thread on the Expecting Rain message boards, and cited an article published shortly after the announcement of the set in late September, which and which disclosed the absense of the original sermons.
You know, I wonder if copyright is part of the issue with the sermons. If you put those on the box as "tracks" wouldn't you have to publish the "lyrics" to secure the copyright, and maybe that would lead to a can of worms, if there's the occasional unconscious quotes and whatnot? It may not be worth the trouble it would cause them. I don't know how this stuff works or the material that well to say, but this is something that crossed my mind in this discussion.
I agree. It is amazing. I love the studio and 1979 versions, but this voice (with the organ) is so great!
Video from 3 days later: June 30. But it was pretty short-lived - by his US shows in October and November, he had moved on.
A bit off topic, and probably just a crazy dream, but JWH was released Dec 27, 1967. As a buyer of the bd.com San Diego set of BS 13, I will be checking my e-mail on Dec 27 for download info on the complete JWH sessions. Yeah I know, not holding my breath, but I guess I choose to have faith rather than unbelief....
Just got the vinyl box. Sounds great on lp. But I’m a bit disappointed in myself; I’ll probably end up getting the deluxe 8 cd package because I want the whole Toronto.
Oh well. Not the biggest problem...
Hey Shadow Blaster, I'm in the same boat as you. Hoping beyond hope that they do that. That is why I order from Bd.com
Regarding sermons: I’m personally glad they’re not included in this set. I don’t mind a bit of between-song banter on my live albums, but I would find it a lot harder to invest in these performances if I had to hear them alongside some of the more questionable tirades.
There was a middle ground option which unfortunately wasn't taken up by Bob Inc. but which may have been acceptable to all parties.
Live In San Diego: Include all the stage chatter and sermonising (assuming it was recorded), plus the full musical show (assuming it was recorded).
Trouble No More: Include only the non-controversial stage banter (such as the spoken intro to "Caribbean Wind", for example).
SPECIAL UNRELATED ANNOUNCEMENT:-
After many months without a home "Electric Dylan" is back!
The format is much the same but Roger has made revisions to all the sections and, perhaps best of all for those who do not subscribe to ISIS magazine, he has included his six part forensic examination of "The Cutting Edge Collector's Edition" in the original PDF format! Even better, he has added "sticky note" revisions to those articles. (It is best to download the articles, because the digital "sticky notes" don't work too well on screen; the latest two, dealing with the BS7 sampler snippets, are a bit wonky on the downloads as well, but I expect Roger will get them sorted out before long.)
The whole thing remains a work-in-progress, but the site itself has been smoke-tested over the last month or so. All the links work on PC and on mobile devices. As always, Roger welcomes comments and corrections. He's not immune to praise, either!
Time to crack open Big Blue again!
Great interview with Tackett and Keltner. It seems Dylan was successful turning Keltner into a man of God!
Bob Dylan's Gospel Period Sidemen Share Memories of His Most Divisive Era
Thanks. That’s an amazing resource.
Well, I'm glad *someone* talked to Tackett about this time period and these shows/box set. (Because Heylin - even though he was supposedly writing about what really happened - did not.)
I see The Beach Boys are continuing with their Copyright protection releases, the latest being "1967: Sunshine Tomorrow 2 - The Studio Sessions". There's still (fading) hope for the JWH outtakes.
There's a live 1967 copyright release from the Beach Boys too.
Yep. They are going full throttle on the "Sunshine..." releases this year. The 2CD set with the live stuff was released in July, I think. The studio sessions, released just now, seem to be digital only which is at least better than a poke in eye with a sharp stick. My fingers are still crossed for JWH, but more in hope than any kind of realistic expectation.
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