Bookshelf speakers on shelves and ideal speaker positioning?

I get the whole thing about ideal speaker positioning.

But what is the point of bookshelf speakers? As the name suggests, they are expected to be placed on shelves. Shelves are typically placed against or on walls. Shelves, gosh, may even have books.

Are we saying that we are destined to have a poor listening experience? What can be done when one has a small living room and has to place speakers on bookshelves? Is there hope? Hacks? Tricks? Special models particularly suited for being on shelves surrounded by books?

Some advice is welcome!

 

Not sure they are expected to placed on shelves but their general size would allow them to be placed on many sizes of bookshelf with books if thats what you need to do. If you need to place on shelves it can be done and still achieve good listening experience. As with a lot of speakers placements having the tweeters near ear height to your most common listening / seating position is a start, and using a speaker with front porting as opposed to rear may also be good. Some bookshelf speakers allow for port plugs if they need to be placed close to or against the wall or back of your shelving unit. I have side and rear surrounds that are on shelves and they sound fine. The rear set is ported in the front and the side surrounds are moved out from the wall as far as I can feasibly put them leaving about 3 inches of space between the speaker back and wall. Not ideal but that's how it has to be. Once again they sound good even if I can't follow standard rules of thumb.

 

We are ALL destined to have poor listening experiences, there is no hope at all. Unless you buy my special cables and book Audio Paradise Here On Earth! Wire transfer $987,435 to my Caymans account number 666-1234-4242

OK more seriously, here are some thoughts:
- Stands can get the speakers farther out from the rear wall, reducing how strong the reflection from that wall is plus the reflection will be more delayed in time and therefore less "cluttering" to your hearing.
- On the other hand, my belief is normal people find stands unattractive. And as a loudspeaker engineer, they offend me because I see space that could have been used for additional cabinet volume to extend the bass etc.
- Bookshelf speakers with rear ports need to have a few port diameters clear to the rear, and be able to breathe to the sides of that. In other words, not totally hemmed in by large books.
- Bookshelf speakers may be placed higher, which would reduce floor reflection (but maybe strengthen ceiling reflection). The height may be nicer that "listening down" to small speakers on short stands.
- On a shelf, the front of the speaker should not be recessed. It should be flush or even protruding a bit.
- The variety of stuff on shelves can produce a more random/cluttered/diffuse set of reflections, which might actually sound better compared to a more distinct one with no shelves.
- If the shelves are stuffed full of books, like at my uncle's place may he rest in peace, then it becomes almost like a half-space and potentially eliminating the rear wall reflection (with a whole bunch of much tinier reflections).

 

Bookshelf positioning is totally doable. But consider these suggestions:

• Avoid rear-ported speakers. Small, infinite-baffle designs are probably best. LS3/5A's, Harbeth P3ESR's, Spendor S3/5's, ProAc Tablettes are ideal.

• Note that some current bookshelf speakers may be too deep to fit comfortably on a typical bookshelf.

• Rubber feet, felt furniture pads or isolation pods may be a good idea to stop the speakers from causing resonances from the bookshelf.

• Don't expect "soundstaging" to be spectacular from bookshelf placement. (I wouldn't lose any sleep over this, myself.)

 

Interesting about the flush fitting with shelves - my AVI Neutron IV speakers are indented by about an 1.5 inchs from the front of the shelf:-



I think when I installed the speakers I was trying to to not get to far away from the rear wall (which is currently about 5 inches from the back of the speaker).

The Neutrons are rear ported but the port is tiny and so I was trying to reinforce the bass (what there is of it).

Do you think bringing the speakers flush will be beneficial - if so what will be the benefits (soundstaging?)

The speakers are currently blutacked down to the shelves.

 

Thanks for the reassurance. With all due respect to them, but sometimes audiophiles seem to live in a world of their own (or not having a wife )

 

This is much appreciated. And that we're all are destined to have less than optimal (or actually poor) listening experiences. Note the placement of speakers on the shelf (flush). Also, if I understood correctly, that I can place them at a relatively high point than my sat down earing spot (e.g., at ears-hight when I', standing) for as long as they're not too close to the ceiling. They need to be (and they are) front ported. Having books directly leaning on them not so good as it doesn't allow for rear wall reflecting - probably leaving something like half-foot on both sides of each speaker. I don't dislike stands (the wife may differ) but is a fact of life they demand space footprint and depending on your layout can be unpracticable.

But thanks, these are good tips and give me hope that I'm not missing tooooo much of the listening experience my humble system is capable of delivering in optimal conditions. This before my bastard boss promotes me to the higher-earning position I'm worthy of!

 

I have several rear ported speakers on shelves with no ill fated irregularities. Just don't put them right up against the wall. Many speaker designers put the port in the rear to hide port noise or get the non-attractive feature out of the front face.

Now for the term "bookshelf". In the old days, these speakers were actually designed around the notion that they would (and should) be placed on a shelf, because their design used the wall behind them to enhance some of the frequencies. Many were designed to be placed horizontally too. Of course, as the years went by, acoustical science proved that horizontal placement was a bad idea so they become vertical mounts. As smaller woofers and enclosures improved, the need for the rear wall went away too.

Now most "bookshelf" speakers can be placed almost anywhere they fit, even out in the open, on stands. What ever floats your boat.

 

Bless us the confined!

 

Thanks for your highly useful post, @head_unit. I singled out just this line for quotation because it's the one on which I have something to add.

I've found my NHT SuperOne 2.1's sound at their best when placed higher than conventional wisdom, just as you say. (The conventional wisdom for all speakers being "tweeter should be at ear height.") This is very likely for the reason you give, reduced floor reflections. The room has a 14-foot ceiling, so ceiling reflections are a non-issue--but floor reflections are. The speakers are also on Isoacoustics Aperta stands on the shelves, to reduce resonance with the shelves themselves. The net elevation of the speakers puts the woofers roughly at ear height or a schosh above, with the tweeters noticeably above ear height. (Even above head height, by a bit.)

I theorize that yet another benefit to the sound from high placement (beside the reduction of floor reflections) is that the sound has a chance to come into the room more, rather than be blocked or reflected by various pieces of furniture as would happen, in my case, with conventional "tweeter-ear" placement.

And finally, the fact that the speakers have no port front or back, being sealed-box types, allows them to be fairly near the back wall without suffering too much. (They would not do well right up against the back wall, I feel, but at 10 or 12 inches out, they're quite pleasing.)

 

The term "bookshelf speakers" is used loosely. It comes from an era in the beginning of acoustic suspension speakers where people were not so concerned about how positioning affected the sound.
They liked the hifi aspect and the ability to put them on a bookshelf. They were not so fixated on imaging, sound stage and room affects, they just wanted a good hifi sound that projected music into the room.
Today serious listeners do care about such things. If you have to place your speakers in/on a bookshelf you can achieve good sound.
Speaker choice- there are speakers that sound good on a shelf- the KEF LS50s for example allow you to plug the rear bass ports to smooth the bass response when placed on a shelf near a wall.
The other things to help would be to place them at the proper height for the speaker and left right spacing so the listening position is centered.
Once you have a speaker that allows shelf / wall placement, a little experimentation with up / down and left / right positioning will give you the best sound. It can be done.

 

Thanks for thoughtful response. Indeed, back in the substance-abuse-prone seventies everything was to blurred anyway to care about optimal speaker positioning. Sound blast was all that mattered then I imagine

 

or possibly some classical music in the background while reading a good book ?

 

If using on a bookshelf just make sure they are not rear ported...

If you have the funds the Harbeth P3ESR would be perfect.

 

Thank you for that. My speakers are set into fully loaded record shelves, positioned quite high. I'm happy with the sound I get from them (and I'm being brave by relying on my own ears, sticking with a brand and model that have received neither extensive reviews nor word-of-mouth discussion on line). As first and foremost a 78 collector with the bulk of his collection in mono, I don't count stereo imaging as my first priority, but this arrangement does yield a good sense of space with stereo recordings and often even with pre-stereo ones. I'd wondered about placement, though, and what you wrote is definitely reassuring.

For the record, the main speakers are Pinnacle BD650 mk. II, deliberately chosen for their front-ported design because I knew they'd be going onto the shelves; they were replacements for Magnepans that became untenable as my daughter started needing the room's floor space for things like ballet and off-ice training. Unfortunately, they are just slightly too tall to sit upright.



Immediately out of the frame are perpendicular walls on both sides; the left is a set of glass-front display cases with the doors set at slight angles to avoid setting up standing waves; the right is mostly windows, which naturally are flat to the room. The camera angle makes that right-hand curtain look as if it dribbles out over the speaker; in fact, it doesn't, or at most does by maybe an inch. Ignore the speaker in the middle, which serves my afterthought, cobbled-together, seldom-used 5.1 channel add-on.

Sorry, not interested in the book unless the pages have been cryogenically treated.

 

My worries have vanished!

 

These?
Pinnacle Black Diamond 650 Series II Speaker System Test Bench
They appear to go quite low. Pinnacle made really good stuff-someone started a fan site
Pinnacle Speakers - Geeky Speaker Reviews and Guides

In your shelves, it looks like they should come out and inch or two. They can only go sideways? Because the shelves don't adjust? If so, the basic problem sideways is dispersion. Vertically oriented speakers often have nulls (dead spots) at various frequencies above and below the main listening axis. If you only listen from a sweet spot, this might be OK if you are a bit lucky. Experiment flipping them over (180 degree rotation) to see if that happens to sound better. Also experiment shimming them behind to point down more at the listening position.

 

Yes, those very ones. I believe the review you tagged is the only one from an established source other than the one on TNT-Audio--which I wrote myself! Some speakers, the owner can look for validation in an abundance of good reviews; with these, I'm just trusting my ears. I like what I hear with them, and while I won't pretend I don't sometimes feel temptation to revert to Magneplanars, then I play something through the Pinnacles and think, "Well, I really can't find anything that I want to change. Why mess with success?" I do always listen to them from the same spot in the room, my favorite recliner.

That's right, the shelves are fixed, sized for LPs. I never planned to put speakers on them when I had them built, but life changes (read: parenthood) afterward had other ideas. (As one of my neighbors puts it, quoting what he says is an old saying, "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.") I have the speakers set with the woofers away from the side walls as much as possible to avoid corner boom. Was that a bad idea? Conventional wisdom at least used to caution against woofers in corners. I'm a little scared to pull them beyond the front edge of the shelves, because the cabinets are strongly curved in to the rear, and I'm not confident they'd be secure. Not a bad idea about tilting them downward, though; I'll give that a try. Eventually, I have an idea to try moving the Pinnacles out onto stands--I have the uprights already built, parts of a temporary mantelpiece that I put together during construction of the adjacent dining room. Just a matter of adding "feet" and a platform for the speakers. That experiment will need to wait, however, until my daughter goes off to college or otherwise no longer needs the floor to be clear.

 

Genius !

 

The Bookshelf Speaker has become more of a generic term for a smaller speaker, and less the actual type of speaker. The classic bookshelf speaker could be any size with practical limitation, sometimes rather large at apprx 24 x 11 x 13 inches deep. What really defines a bookshelf speaker is one that can be placed against a wall, and will fit in a bookshelf. The classic design was a sealed box, (no port) perhaps the best for bass control when against a wall. (in a good sealed design, the bass is tight and rolls off gently below the speaker's rated response) If ported, a front port is better, but a rear port ok if allowed ample air space in back of the speaker. (about 2 to 3 inches) Bass is omni-directional and has a tendency to wrap around the speaker cabinet.... so the port sums the bass as designed regardless of port location. The wall in back will "see" the front port, or rear port nearly equally. (I am a speaker builder hobbyist)

It seems for a truly well engineered bookshelf speaker, "we" have lost the art of building them.
Nearly all speakers are engineered to be on stands, away from room boundaries. Bookshelf locations seem to be only an afterthought, or included in the advert and literature to sell more speakers. (ie: front ported for optional bookshelf locations.. etc.)

Here is the typical bookshelf setup from the 70's ... that's me as a happy young audiophile. The Pioneer speakers (sealed cabinet) would be bass deficient if free standing. They had to be against a wall. The lady of the house approved the shelf, but about a year later placed the sofa there (ugh) for extra seating space to watch TV

 

I would say just position them for best bass response. The rear port is perfectly ok for bookshelf use, if there is ample space for the port to breathe, about 2 to 3 inches should be enough.

 

- No, it's logical. They *may* just happen to sound better flipped, and/or spaced closer together or farther apart, depending on how the normally-vertical beaming affects the sound.
- I get what you say about reluctance to pull them more forward. I'd probably shim them up at the back but put some kind of string or bracket or something-not sure what, I can't find a picture of the backs-to anchor them to the bookshelf's uprights. Maybe some kind of surveyor's string or thin wire, looped under the binding post plate screws if no alternative.
- And stands...doesn't hurt to experiment. I wouldn't bother but that's me. If you are married your spouse will probably hate that.

 

Tip: If the speakers will be above head level on a bookshelf, many (but not all) small speakers sound better upside down, so the tweeters are closer to ear level.

 

If you place speakers on a bookshelf, close to a wall, they will produce sound. Whether you'll be satisfied with it or not will depend on your experience as a listener and your expectations. I can guarantee though that the sound quality will be vastly inferior to ideal speaker positioning in the same room. You won't get proper imaging and soundstage, the instruments will sound congested, there won't be a proper balance between all frequencies - all due to close proximity of the speakers to walls and other surrounding objects. There are no "tricks" that can fix that - that's the reality.



Even if you do not have space for permanent speaker placement in the middle of the room I strongly suggest at least try the Cardas nearfield method just to understand what you are missing and whether it is something you want to strive for in the longer term.