Bowie's Young Americans RCA cd vs. the AU20

Well, I finally took the plunge and picked up a used copy of David Bowie's Young Americans cd on RCA. After reading comments about how good the RCA's sounded I just wanted to hear for myself. I put on the RCA and noticed how flat it sounded and I mean flat as a pancake. I then put on the Au20 version. In my opinion the Au20 version sounded much better. The instruments had better separation. The piano sounded more like a piano on the Au20 version. The sound in general was more musical to my ears on the Au20 version. My girlfriend arrived home right about the time I was listening to the cds, so I asked her to listen to each disc. This was a blind listening test. After about 40 seconds she said she prefered the Au20.

I felt like it was a waste of money to buy the RCA version. It just is not better. At least not to my ears. I didn't compare any other RCA titles from Bowie to the Au20's that I have, so I cannot comment on those.

 

Please be aware that many of the "recommended" CDs on this site (IMO) are not necessarily "magical" but may simply lack the no-noise, treble boost, etc. that many of the recent releases have. In fact, I would be willing to wager that the majority of listeners, if they walked in like your girlfriend did, would probably choose the "hotter" of the two. Not necessarily the more accurate. I do, however, remember having a few RCA Bowie CDs in the past and they definitely did not stand out in my collection.

Now if we could just get that across to those (wealthy) individuals that get information off this site and throw their money around on Ebay, expecting to find heaven.

 

Re: Re: Bowie's Young Americans RCA cd vs. the AU20

Jligon,
You make a valid point. I have moved a lot in the direction of the forum to the point where I don't enjoy some CD's as much as I used to (Peter Mew's work for example). I do hear the difference. I have also come to respect Steve Hoffman's work even more as each SH disc I own has more life and is a more absorbing listen than other remasters of the same work.
The Forum opened my ears a little.
But getting away to non-SH remasterings, there's some IMO good sounding music that gets trashed by some members. Tastes do vary and we have to make a judgement call.
Overall, though, I find the input very helpful.

 

If you like it, stick with it!

Heck I'll buy the RCA if you want to get rid of it.....

 

I think this is just a case where a flat transfer doesn't work for your average listener. Sure, a guy like Steve loves this sort of thing, because he can tweak it to his liking. Most of us don't have the ability to do that beyond tone controls, and some don't even have those. Personally, I enjoy a flat transfer as a novelty or for play, but would much prefer a skilled mastering engineer to gently massage the sound to it's full potential.

Reading some posts about the RCA, I did listen again to my AU20. There is a lot of audio detail lacking from that disc which becomes evident when compared to the MFSL LP of same title. The LP is WAY more open, and I suspect it has a lot to do with the points of processing in their mastering chain. The signal was sampled, then processed through (I think) a digital EQ, then sent to a Mac workstation for 20 bit SBM mastering. As Steve contends, and I agree, these things degrade the signal in very significant ways, and unfortunately, the AU20 lacks a lot of the wonderful qualities the MFSL possesses.

As far as EQ goes, I did find the MFSL and AU20 to be quite similar. A very typical smiley-face EQ sound. You could do a whole lot worse than either of these.

The Ryko AU20 CD of Frank Zappa One Size Fits All is a treat, IMO. They're not all bad.

 

Well, the Zappa Au20s were done in a much different manner (the UMRK did them in-house, so Ryko didn't do them independantly).

Frankly, while I'm not necessarily thrilled to death with the quality of the Au20s, they're the best versions I have, and in some cases (Man Who Sold, for example) they sound stellar.

-D

 

Re: Re: Bowie's Young Americans RCA cd vs. the AU20

I hope you are not saying I'm wealthy. The RCA cd was less than 15.00. I have more often than not have had good luck in taking recommendations from this forum. If a certain artist or recording is important to me I always want to have the best sounding version out there, so I am willing to spend a little money to find out.

BTW, My girlfriend has those golden ears, I trust her opinion. I didn't think the Au20 version was much hotter than the RCA version.

 

Ok, Sold!! PM me.

 

Admittedly the AU20's are more detailed but after training my ears to appreciate a flat transfer, they are just way too hot on the top end and my particular system is very non-forgiving in this aspect.

To each their own.

BTW I would recommend that you don't want to buy any of the "normal" CD's that I recommend as you'll no doubt be disappointed with them as well for the same reason. In that case, I would recommend to you that you should get both the Mastersound's Meatloaf: Bat Out Of Hell and Bruce Sprinsteen's Born To Run as they're mastered way too hot for my liking as well.

 

Re: Re: Re: Bowie's Young Americans RCA cd vs. the AU20

Hi Tullman.
I, by no means, was referring to you when I made that generalization.

I also wasn't bashing the advice given on this site. Afterall, there's a reason I come here on a daily basis. I understand now, however, what a number of the people here like from their CD's and pretty much know what to expect, given their tastes.

Perhaps your system doesn't match up well with some of the "flat" transfers from the 80's. I know I don't go nuts for all of them but sometimes they're the best that's out there. It would probably make sense to be somewhat skeptical of any recommendations unless they're coming from someone that knows your tastes.

 

Mike (and anyone else who feels this way),

Don't sell yourself short! All of you have computers (obviously), just get yourself a burner and some software, and have at it! I use Cool Edit 2000, which is about 80 bucks (the price of 3 gold CDs), and you can download it for a free 30 day trial period. I didn't even change my soundcard - all I have is Soundblaster, which makes it a bit tricky hear exactly what you are doing (you get used to it), but it doesn't affect the sound that gets burned to the CD-R.

I am EXTREMELY HAPPY with the results I have achieved. I had to work at it, of course, but it isn't rocket science. You need a good idea of what you are after (and if you are reading this board you probably have that) and the patience to pursue it (and if you are reading this board, you FOR SURE have that!). Most of us have done A/B comparisons, and this is the same thing. I have a bunch of EQ presets set up, and keep toggling back and forth until I am satisfied.

It seems to me that the ideal solution to Bowie on CD is to get the RCA flat transfers and remaster it yourself just the way you want it (unless you are totally happy with the one of the other versions). It is very liberating to know that I can do a DIY remastering and not have to hope and pray that, on some glorious future day, someone will properly remaster it.

One caveat - it is very addictive and time comsuming! Beware!

 

I want that bad boy EQ Steve has over at his house.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bowie's Young Americans RCA cd vs. the AU20

My system is very flat. Soo... garbage in garbage out or music in music out. I'm not saying the RCA's are garbage in fact they are not bad. It just seems like there is some information missing on the RCA.

 

Dave, You really hit the nail on the head about Rush live in concert. They were terrific!!

 

The RCA "Young Americans" has the first beats cut off of the first song!!!
It is a piece of CRAP!!!
Guys..the Rykos are the way to go!!!
Even the new anniversary edition of Ziggy has a few tracks reversed!!!
RYKO ONLY!!!
RYKO ALWAYS!!!

 

A year ago I would have agreed with you. Not anymore.

If an album needs EQ, an analog EQ is fine if one setting sounds good for the whole album. That is often not the case. Instead of jumping up and down between cuts, readjusting the EQ (or just as bad, sitting there tolerating it), I would rather remaster each track individually, using digital EQ, and burn a CD-R. That way I can relax while I listen!

On top of that, EQ software enables me to use as many EQ settings as I want within a single track, for as long as I want (down to 1/1000 of a second). If the sound on the track varies as it goes along, or the treble drops out in spots (check out Nutbush City Limits from Seger's Live Bullet), I can EQ those moments separately. I can even do "surgical strikes" on hot sibilants or cymbal crashes, something which would be almost impossible on an analog EQ unit.

And when I'm done, I'M DONE. No more having to remember to check my notes and reset the EQ whenever I switch albums.

 

audiomixer tell us how you really feel.

 

To JOHN B: Your comments are right on the money. I wish I could have said it as well. Each of us has our own very subjective opinion on these sort of things and we should remember that there is no "derfinitive" version of a lot of what is out there. Like everyone else, I love the detail and depth of the HOFFMAN masters and wish everything I had sounded that way.

 

I agree with what you are saying here. However if I have a strong opinion on the sound of a specific recording I will express it. I have come across some great music and recordings because of opinions (including Dave's opinions) expressed on here. I want people on here to express there opinions. Right or wrong.

I listened to the Young American cds again last night. I just don't hear it in the RCA mastering. I know the Au20 has it's shortcomings but it is clearly better than the RCA.

 

I missed the original version of one of the songs on the Ryko Young Americans (I can't remember which one, but an alternative version was substituted - ??Win or ?? Right) The Virgin has the correct version (don't know about the RCA CD) I didn't like the Ryko - I heard bass roll off, treble roll off and boosted mids. The Virgin has more bass, LOTS of treble. The UK RCA vinyl I had sounded like a balancing act between these two - I hope the RCA CD sounds like this. The Rykos didn't sound like any RCA vinyl I heard.

 

Tullman,

Glad you had a good time at the Rush show. They are awesome! So what did you think of the boys live?

audiomixer,

What are you running for a system? Do you also believe that digital mastering is better than analog?

 

I've got the Virgin records issue of Ziggy, I will have to compare it to the Au20. I think that the MFSL vinyl of Ziggy is pretty darn good!

 

Dave, I thought Rush was incredible. The playing, singing, and music was all first rate. I liked their new music too. The video stuff was clever and interesting. I also liked the the huge flames they had shooting off behind them.

 

I just borrowed my neighbor's RCA CD of CHANGESONEBOWIE and to my ears everything sounds fuller on the RCA disc except for the stuff from Young Americans. Those two cuts sound better on the Ryko edition. Strange. How does the RCA disc of Heroes compare?

the other Wes

 

I'm having a hard time distinguishing the Au20 versions of the Bowie discs. These are available in America through Ryko right? How are they different from the 24-bits I see at the store? Can someone please list catalog numbers? It would be appreciated.