Bowling For Columbine - DVD Question

Unfortunately, I may have to see it myself to make up my own mind. Somehow, I don't think I got a subjective opinion.IMO

I think Canada may offer you all "greener" or brighter pastures all pastures. I think they are reconsidering changing their country's name to Shangri La or Utopia.

 

Canada, the country where no one needs to lock their doors!

That was a funny part of the movie, Michael Moore walking up to doors and just opening them, surprising the home owners, who don't react by getting a gun, but actually talk to him nicely.

Man, there are many parts of the USA you wouldn't just walk up and start opening the front door!

 

Many are not so sure about the non-fiction part. An example:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

 

He didn't display any signs of Alzheimer's in that interview...

James, after reading your link, i'll have to really scrutinize the film, now that I have watched it.

 

Not too many places here where you can still do that and live to tell about it!

I love The US, land of my birth, but that film made Canada seem awful good. "They leave you alone", as one US visitor said in the film.

You think our Gorts in Canada ever wonder why some of us US citizens are so uptight about some things? We're stressed out down here!

 

I read an article that the decline in the murder rate in the nation's cities has less to do with political issues like drug enforcement, three-strikes laws, gun control, etc., and more to do with the statistical mirage created by the vast improvements made in emergency medical service over the past couple decades.

People are still getting maimed and wounded, but are more likely to survive a shooting, albeit with a wheelchair or catheter bag the rest of their lives, due to improved logisitics, equipment, and training: "The group [of physicians] estimated that without these improvements the U.S. murder rate would be 45,000 to 70,000 annually rather than the current 15,000 to 20,000."

But people like to have a single, easily digestible number to quantify crime, so we focus on the fact that sheer homicide totals have declined, while glossing over that aggravated assaults have increased.

This isn't the article I read, but summarizes the findings, with links: http://www.ama-assn.org/sci-pubs/amnews/pick_02/hlsc0902.htm

 

Ron, I never thought of that, but it makes perfect sense.

 

That makes great sense, for this reason, as far as the U.S. is concerned, we can't have a socialized healthcare system lowering the standards that created these advances. (Off my soapbox.)

 

A couple of points from the Canadian perspective shown in that movie...

- The gun statistics are a bit misleading. Gun ownership is much more regulated and controlled in Canada than in the US, and is continuing to get more restrictive (Heston alludes to this in his interview). However, the majority of firearms in Canada are in rural areas. I've lived in Toronto all my life, and I have never met anyone who owned a gun here. But it's a very different story in other parts. Gun control legislation here has always been very controversial, with most urban inhabitants strongly supporting it, and the rural population strongly opposing it.

- Almost everyone I know always keeps their doors locked!

 

I'm not sure it's that simple. While there may be many reasons to not further socialize health-care, this may not be one of them. I suspect the advances made in triage that allow Americans to better survive serious assaults are more socialized in nature (that is, government-funded) than, say, the advances made in pharmaceuticals, which are funded and consumed by the more private sources of corporations and individual consumers.

Triage comes down to infrastructure: ambulances, hospitals, equipment, staffing. An economist could tell us whether this would improve or suffer from increased government oversight, but I suspect many gunshot victims are not insured, so tax- and premium-payers fund it anyway, in a sort of backdoor socialism.

Libertarians and socialists agree on one thing: complex economic systems, like health care, are socialized. It's a question of how much, to whose benefit, and which direction increased socialization and/or privatization should take.

At the risk of thread-drift and gorting, read the recent (ATLANTIC or HARPERS) article on privatized medical care inside prison facilities. Bottom-line neglect, in concert with the overcrowding produced by mandatory sentencing, has turned the U.S. prison system into a giant hepatitis incubator. If you think this doesn't concern you, I'd remind you that former prisoners are most likely to find work in the service industry, i.e., your favorite restaurant. Ironically, the prison system held up as a model of prison medical reform is the Texas system, which is overseen by their universities. In this case, it appears we need to re-socialize this particular sector of the health care field.

 

Ron & Friends,

This thread is turning into a 'political' thread which, is not allowed here - sorry!

We need to cease and desist now...

Thank you.

Bob

 

Michael Moore? And politics? Hard to believe.....

Just goes to prove I don't hijack all the threads around here, just a few every now and then....and to think this one began as a simple question: is your set a 2-DVD package, or a double-sided single disc? From there, well....it's Moore, and he seems to think he was put on this earth just to provoke controversy. Gotta give him credit, he does it well....he and Nick Broomfield should form a partnership and do the muckraking movie to end all muckraking movies....and at the end, not agreeing with anything, they turn on each other.

I'd pay to see that....

Did enjoy TV NATION; first on NBC, then FOX. But Moore didn't do it all himself, he used other reporters(including former MTV vixen Karen Duffy)and some of those pieces were less political than about the strange occupations and situations that suffuse our society. I always liked Moore best when he either forgot to bring his soapbox with him, or tripped over it trying to make a point.


ED

 

Boy, I was trying to be as political -- that is, non-confrontational -- as possible, but I still tripped over those gort wires!

 

Thanks Ron! On threads that 'go political' those wires are low to the ground.

Bob

 

Bowline.

The bowline DVD is a two disc affair in OZ at this time.
Iv'e already copped enough to give a spiel

 

And hot! Fully jucied!

 

2 sided or 2 disc...

My wife rented it from Blockbuster and it was 2 sided.

Mark

Awesome way to spend a couple hours. (and plan to move to Canada)

 

I loved it and hated it. I think it's worthy of a look regardless of your political stance. Granted, he sugar coats the negatives about the Democratic Party and goes for the throat of the GOP.
Moore while unhappy in being an American does make some great points on gun control.
I hated the way he protrayed my state of Michigan. I hated his view of the history of the country. I loved the Columbine kids going to K Mart. I loved the way he put Heston in a true light.
Moore has lived a good sheltered life. I doudt he'd support or fight to protect anything and he considers ALL military acts by America as evil.
If he'd have kept it strickly to gun control or hand guns in particular it would been fantasic. The question about why we have so many gun related deaths and Canada with 7 million guns has so few has left me scratching my head. Obviously it's not income level or unemployment.

 

Without getting political at all, I'd just like to point out that my kids take out DVDs from the library, and the library has to put "property of Boston Public Library" stickers on them. When it's a double-sided disc, they have to cover up one of the sides with the stickers, making that side unviewable. And guess which side it usually is - the letterboxed version! They obviously prefer pan-and-scan to letterboxing!

It's a right-wing conspiracy!

 

DITTO from me too! I would never leave my doors unlocked and don't know anyone who does.
Don't be fooled by Michael Moore's propaganda.
We have lots of guns here!!! Lots of drive by shootings, gang shoot-ups, armed robberies and more!!!
Every crook and gang member here who wants a gun has one or can get one easy.
We may have some tougher gun laws than you guys... but it's not la-la land here by any stretch of the imagination.

 

In my Canadian opinion: yes, lots of guns (though mostly used for hunting); I wouldn't say that there are "lots" of drive-by shootings, gun shoot ups and armed robberies (I speak relatively to the US, as I watch a lot fo local news from several places around the US on my US satellite dish); you are entirely correct on the gang members wanting to, and getting, guns when they need to (just because the signs entering Canada say "No handguns" doesn't mean that guns can't flow up easily from the US).

But honestly for a city the size of Toronto, even with some of the gang activity, compared to most US cities on a per-capita basis, it is indeed la-la land here. And the same can be said for any other G-7 country.

Cliff

 

I have a question. During the happiness is a Warm Gun montage (how'd they get the rights to that?) who was the woman that was walking while talking to the reporter? I know the stories on the others but not her. Anyone know? Cheating wife? Divorce case?

 

Grant, I'm very proud to live in Canada but I think George Harrison was really writing about Canada when he penned "Taxman" . While it has helped provide some form of universal health care and less disparity between rich and poor than you have in the US, we are almost at the point of having our "feet", "seat" and "heat" taxed. In a perfect world, I would live right on the border and live in Canada yet work and shop in the US (but somehow only pay US income tax ).

Cliff

 

Everything is relative Cliff isn't it. And, we do IMHO have a lot more drive by shootings, armed robberies, armed kidnappings etc., than we ever had in this country in the past. Its funny though how we have tougher gun laws today than we did 40 years ago here in Canada but there's "lots" more shootings today than I can ever remember as a kid! And speaking of kids, I certainly don't let my 9 year old daughter go wandering out to play by herself in the streets today, like I could do when I was a kid.

Here's one for you from yesterday http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?articleID=1390709
Gee... if any of you forum members come up here for a holiday you better be careful about what clubs you go to in Vancouver's historic Gastown!!!!!

But, I guess relatively speaking this is lala land. I live near the border, buy my gas in Blaine, and do my cd shopping in Bellingham & Seattle.

 

Chaz, I can't disagree with you there, my friend, if you're speaking relative to the past (Canadian past). There's certainly a lot more violent crime than yesteryear. Having grown up in England, and still visiting there quite often, I have found that it is on the rise there as well IMHO. It appears to be a trend everywhere. But when it comes to overall violent crime on a per-capita basis, the US is king (just as they are for cheap gas, cheap hi-rez music and generally nice folks ). No matter what Michael Moore says, I don't think anyone can figure out the United States of America .

Cliff