Breaking Bad, did it ever almost "jump the shark"?

They did show him with withdrawal symptoms in one of the more memorable scenes for me. When he is at the diner with Mike and he notices and offers him his food. If I recall correctly, that was the first indication that the two of them were bonding, which would of course become an important part of the story.

He also seemed to have some moments in recovery, but they seemed more related to dealing with the deaths of other characters than his own substance abuse.

 

I’d say the final season was a stretch and Walt’s bad guy/bad ass “Heisenberg” personae wasn’t that awesome. The last episode was too nicely wrapped with a bow. I thought it was bad.

Good series, but not perfect like many believe it is.

 

Breaking Bad is my #1 All Time Favorite TV Show(despite my Avatar that is my Top 3-4 though). That being said the one weakness was having Goon Neo Nazis, who are no way a match for the Brains of Gus Fring nor the Psycho Characters of Tuco and the Cousins, being the Villains in the Final Season. It seemed like Walt needed a better opponent in taking out his final revenge. The Show still ended well though.

It was fun to watch how Walt set up the Machine Gun in the Trunk of the Car to go off and kill all of them. I am not a Comic Book Person, although love the Dark Knight Movies(Christopher Nolan), and that scene reminded me of something The Joker(Heath Ledger-RIP) might have planned(or even The Joker from the Gotham TV Series-RIP Jerome the Character not the actual Actor, as killing off your Character was a bummer, as looked forward to Gotham Episodes he was in the plot for certain weeks).

 

They weren't sure that the show would get renewed for a fifth season - bear in mind that BB didn't penetrate the public consciousness until the hype really kicked in on the last two years - so that's why Season 4 ends so definitively. Once they were renewed for the 'last season' (which is really two seasons of eight episodes each a year apart, let's be real!), they had to develop a new story arc and new adversaries... enter Lydia and the Nazis, which actually worked just fine in my estimation... it flowed in a natural way from what came before; once Gus Fring was out of the way, Walt could become the kingpin of the meth empire, and that meant getting into bed with some dubious sorts to keep the operation moving.

Ultimately though, Walt's greatest adversary in the last stretch was himself; Walter White was dead long before the cancer would have taken him, consumed and devoured by Heisenberg, which was in all likelihood who he truly was as a person all along; his meth cooking escapades didn't create that darker persona, they just allowed it to finally escape and run free after years of suppression... his own pride and hubris were ultimately his own undoing, and in succumbing to his true character for the first time in his life, he destroyed everything he built up and valued the most; his empire, his friends, his family, and ultimately his own soul.

Man, what a show that was... we will never see it's like again in our lifetime... probably.

 

Video not available my side of the pond.

 

I agree with some of this, but am unsure about who the real WW was. If he hadn't gotten cancer, how do you think the real WW would have emerged?

I believe we're a product of both nature and nurture. So in my view, WW evolved into Heisenberg b/c of what he saw as an impending death sentence. I think he initially broke bad for the right reasons. But then he got caught up in the rush of the game and went from being a powerless also-ran to a powerful player and just got hooked. Then his pride kicked in and off he went.

One of the reasons I enjoy this show so much is that I see WW as Everyman. I think given the requisite life circumstances. we're all capable of breaking bad. But the, I don't see people as good or bad; people is people. Our actions can be (and often are) bad, but that doesn't make the person bad.

And I think WW won out over Heisenberg in the end (i.e. he got some redemption), which can be seen when he admits to his wife that he didn't do it for the family, he did it b/c he liked it, and in his saving of Jesse once he saw the dire truth of his circumstances. Would a true drug lord forgive utter betrayal and actually feel empathetic towards the betrayer? Heisenberg held sway for a time, but he was never the whole WW. That phone call that made him out to be a total monster in order to exonerate his wife (who would also be seen as having just betrayed him by Heisenberg) is just one of many examples of how Walt struggled with the H persona and didn't always give in to it, despite the many ways we saw it sapping his humanity.

Heck, even Sky broke bad suggesting they had to kill Jesse, when she felt her family threatened. Just have to find the right lever...

 

It wouldn't have, in all likelihood... the cancer was the trigger that set everything thereafter in motion... without it, Walt would have remained a defeated man and died as such soon after.

Skyler didn't break bad, she just acted like a threatened mother hen... the fine line between morality and anarchy is circumstances.

I think his forced exile in New Hampshire woke him back to a kind of reality; not that he regretted his actions but was determined not to let others claim some kind of moral victory over him... in other words, it was pride that brought him back to Albuquerque not principle; it wasn't until he saw Eliot and Gretchen on the television badmouthing him on Charlie Rose that he determined to return and settle things once and for all... with his family, with Eliot and Gretchen, with Lydia and the Nazis.

In other words, Heisenberg still wanted to come out on top... his admission to Skyler, his leaving money for Walt Jr., or even his compassion for Jesse weren't symptomatic of a reformed character... he fully accepted who he was by that point, he was just going to leave the scene on his terms... that's how I understood it anyway.

 

Nice response. I can't refute your logic; we just interpret some things differently.

In my mind, if the real WW (Heisenberg) would only emerge under certain circumstances, then that's not the real thing. The hubris- which is a true part of his character, would find other ways to come out. But the H that he became wouldn't rear it's head, so that would make it a situational response that came from his base character but was not endemic to it. But I understand how you could see it your way.

I believe I read something VG wrote about Sky breaking bad- which doesn't mean that's the only way to see it. But to me, being an active partner in the biz laundering money, threatening people (like she did Lydia), suggesting that Jesse had to die- these all point to someone who broke bad. Did she do it to protect her family? Sure- but that was Walt's initial motivation as well. Did she get anywhere near as bad as Walt/H? No- but she didn't have the time to decay as much. But- was that the real Sky- just released through the circumstances? Or did she become something else due to dire circumstances- as I believe Walt did. They should be held to the same standards- yes?

That last line is interesting- not sure I totally agree, but can't refute it. But again- why does she get this excuse when Walt doesn't?

Totally agree that Walt's winter in NE was part of what led him to the end he chose; it was a humbling experience and he had to grasp his own powerlessness. To the point that he was ready to give up after Jr. shot him down. But seeing the Schwartz's on TV woke him back up, re-ignited his pride and was a big driving force towards the end he chose. And yes, he wanted to come out on top, but he was no longer the H character on his way to becoming a full-blown sociopath like all drug Lords. He was still a conniving, scheming, manipulative character- traits I'd say werer always part of him- but H would have wanted to hurt E&G much more than he did and would have never let Jesse live.

At least that's how I understand it. And I'd add there's no right/wrong way to see it. But the fact we can discuss major themes from the show years after it's end AND that it's open to differing interpretations is just another indication of what a fantastic work of art this show was.

Thanks for the argument- I'll take 30 more minutes- much better than just gainsaying whatever I say! (Hope you get the MP ref; just saying it's always nice debating with someone politely and logically- something that doesn't always happen).

 

how foreboding for people waiting breathlessly for the next season . . . I remember that well.

 

Win a chance to cook (breakfast) with Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston. (WARNING: hilarious content).

 

I've seen headlines mentioning this for a while but didn't bother to watch until today. It is VERY funny. (Probably NSFW, for some language anyway.)

 

I've got the Steelbook box, but want the barrel.

 

Great post!

I totally agree about Walt and his breaking bad because of the death sentence. It reminds me of the line Marie said to Skyler in S3 (when discussing the change in Hank since his killing of Tuco): "Facing death changes a person."

As for Walt Vs. H, excellent points as well. I always got the impression that Vince Gilligan never made Walt as truly awful as he originally intended, but then again I almost always thought Walt was likable, much of which can certainly be credited to the masterful acting of Bryan Cranston.

 

It's a series that begs repeat viewing.
Thought they'd be some Anniversary (new) barrel..4K Blu Ray something.

 

Thanks.

Walking that line between being likable and being a villain was masterfully done. BC gets lots of credit, but so do VG and the writers. (I have a hard time knowing how much of a great character is due to writing/direction/acting; I think all 3 have to be top-notch to get a character as great as WW). They really pushed his likability quotient as the series progressed- many seemed to lose that after he poisoned Brock. Personally, I stopped liking him then, but still rooted for him. And for me, he became likable again after returning from Maine. And saving Jesse really got him back into my good graces.

 

Didn't quite work, but very welcome regardless.

 

Poisoning Brock was obviously beyond awful, but it was so easy to get caught up in him doing whatever it took to kill Gus that I still rooted for him (saying I rooted for him, like you did, is probably more accurate than saying I liked him).

I think I am in the minority of those who was glad when he killed Mike, on the initial run watching. To me, Mike was always so condescending towards Walt - just said the way he said "Walter" when he would address him had such disdain - and it was nice to see Walt get the upper hand on him for a change. Further viewings made me wish Mike had gone out another way. I also think Mike's death scene was underwhelming in a series that otherwise did a masterful job of making significant scenes incredibly poignant and impactful.

 

Remember, when he poisoned Brock, Walt - the chemist, carefully administered just the right amount of poison to put the kid out of commission for a short time ... he didn't want to kill him. When Jane died he did not actively assist in that and remember she was threatening him, so he didn't bend over backwards to save her. He felt horrible when the kid was shot after the train robbery, for a short time - but he did get over it rather quickly. He killed Mike in a fit of passion and immediately regretted it. He felt horrible when Hank died. He always had some good inside that one could root for.

 

Great minds think alike!

I also enjoyed WW finally getting the upper hand on Mike- even though I loved Mike's character. I never completely understood Mike's disdain for Walt. He blamed him for killing Gail and then for the mess after killing Gus- but what was Walt to do- just let them kill him?

But I haven't re-thought that scene as you have. I thought it was poignant and impactful. First, it seemed a very impulsive choice on Walt's part (though not totally clear- did he take Mike's gun b/c he planned it- or just to make sure Mike didn't use it on him?). Second, it appeared initially that Mike might have survived and got away. Then, at the end, Mike tells Walt to just shut up and let him die in peace, while Walt is rationalizing his choice. Perfectly in character for both at Mike's end. And I found the rather peaceful way he expired to be indicative of Mike's character: violent, yes, warranted by Mike's penchant for violence, but the very end in a bucolic river-side setting indicates that was not a bad man.

Mike's most powerful value seemed to be loyalty. And he was not in it for the money; he only wanted to provide for his grand-daughter. So he gets a more peaceful exit and also gets the last word with Walt! It was not as intense physically, but very much-so emotionally.

FWIW, I found Mike to be the most interesting secondary character on the show. His monologue of no half-measures was one of the most moving in the series. And I'm so glad his character is a main one on BCS. We got so much backstory from before he came to ABQ and continue to see his evolution as the show continues. In some ways, I find his story more compelling than Saul's.

Mike's story is also one of breaking bad, though I think he had more character than Walt ever did- and he broke bad because his attempt at doing good led to nothing but heart-break.

 

I rationalized Brock's poisoning similar to you, but the fact remains that there are many variables and WW couldn't be certain Brock would survive. IIRC, it was only after Jesse told them to look for Ricin that the Docs considered poisoning and found the solution; it was pretty touch-and-go and seemed like if Jesse hadn't said anything, Brock might not have survived.

But yes, he never completely lost his humanity. He always had some good in him but it was beginning to get very thin. But this is why I see WW as everyman- who can be broken by circumstances, but not beaten. He was never going to be like real drug lords, whom I believe to all be sociopaths: I don't believe you can get to the top of that game if you have any kind of conscience.

That was one of the (many) great things about Gus' character; he was a great foil for Walt. They were both intelligent, detail-oriented criminals, but Gus would take anyone out at the blink of an eye- even a trusted, loyal underling, for no better reason than to send a message. WW broke bad, but was still pretty milquetoast compared to the likes of Gus, Tuco, Tio, etc.

As for Jane, Walt actually caused her death, though unknowingly. He moved her from on her side (where puking wouldn't be fatal) to on her back (where it was). And he intentionally let her die. How much of that was b/c she was threatening him and how much was b/c he saw her as dragging Jesse down to a likely OD demise is up for debate; regardless, that was a lower pointy even than poisoning Brock for me- even though I still liked him after that.

 

No way ... THIS is the perfectly executed TV series.
The Sopranos, most excellent indeed. But B.B. had the all-time winner end.
Seinfeld.. clearly the best ever comedy show.. but that is me.
Bogie, Cagney, and Edward G. .. the best three in film.

 

I like how your cinema heroes are classic. We often forget the oldies when talking about the best ever. I loved Seinfeld, but I could make a strong case for the Dick Van Dyke show being the best comedy ever. Or All in the Family.

Likewise, I never see Hill Street Blues listed as best ever TV shows, but that's still the high-water mark for me when I stop to think about it. But comparing that to something like BB is apples and oranges. BB had much more time to craft at most 13 shows a season, whereas HSB had to do 21 a year on average. All while working with a huge cast and with technology far behind what we have today. And as over-used as the term ground-breaking is, HSB definitely was that.

 

Seeing this is a Breaking Bad thread, how does it compare to Better Call Saul?

 

Hard to say since BCS isn't complete yet. And even though they are related, the shows are pretty different. BCS is slower-paced, but delves much deeper into the characters. It's not as exciting, but has more depth imo. Best show on TV currently imo. Some say they like it better than BB. I wouldn't go that far, but I enjoy it as much and look forward to it as much as I did BB.

You waiting until it's done to get the complete series and binge-watch?