Brian Wilson biopic: Love and Mercy

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Apr 17, 2013.

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  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I know somebody who has dealt with Brian Wilson in the last 10-15 years, and I was told that it's absolutely not an act: that Brian has good days and bad days, some where he's completely lucid, goes into great detail about who played on a particular session, precisely how a certain song was arranged and recorded... and then in mid-conversation his eyes will just drift off and his speech slows down and he stands there silently for five minutes. So he's not all there. This was with nobody else around, in a very positive, non-stressful situation.

    Yes, when the recordings of Sweet Insanity finally got out, you kinda go "what the hell were they thinking?" Awful songs, terrible music, the worst lyrics on earth. My opinion is that Brian by himself has a lot of problems with lyrics, particularly on his solo work in the last couple of decades; he wasn't bad at all in the 1960s. "Let Him Run Wild," "The Little Girl I Once Knew," "The One You Can't Have"... those are some of my favorite songs on which Brian wrote both words and music. I think he's generally better with a strong collaborator handling lyrics.
     
  2. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    Most definitely. This is what I've taken away from in-person experiences and plenty of observational experiences. He has good days and bad days. It's unfortunate that naysayers sometimes suggest he's total toast, while some insiders close to him insist there's absolutely nothing wrong or dysfunctional going on.

    I do think, as many people do, he will at times manipulate situations. There are those who over the years have suggested Brian "used" and in some ways "manipulated" Landy in some cases, either to accomplish something or to displace any blame aimed towards him. This is obviously a very grey area.

    Like many "celebrities", if you do an interview with Brian the "correct" way, and catch him on a good day, it can go well. Unfortunately, few know how to interview Brian. Step One is always to not ask "yes or no" questions.

    Yeah, some of the music underneath those lyrics on "Sweet Insanity" is nice. But the lyrics are often painful, and the production awful (the Usher stuff was mid-80's production cheese, "Sweet Insanity" was early 90's production cheese). Hard to believe Brian remade a hunk of that album for his 2004 "Gettin' In Over My Head" album, which even many hardcore fans felt was a case of Brian phoning it in.

    The Usher book gets into a bunch of production details, and I guess I just have to try to transplant my brain back to 1986. He seems super into his prowess with the epic task of programming electronic drums, for instance. It's like, sheesh man, you're hiring "session singers", why don't you just hire a real drummer then?
     
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  3. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Many years ago, there was a great interview with Darian where he had a similar story about the planning stages of Smile. Brian was incredible some days, recalling in vivid detail what was done when and who played what, even recalling some conversations. But other days he showed up and was told Brian wasn't seeing people that day. One day, Brian came apart at the seams right before his eyes. The wife was away. The housekeeper knew what pills to give Brian and immediately called the wife, who got on the phone and tried to talk Brian down while they waited for the drugs to kick in.
     
  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    My impression is that Usher's place was just a demo studio, and he always assumed Brian would go to a bigger recording studio to finish the album. I'd concede that nowadays, an awful lot of albums start off in project studios and then wind up getting augmented later on, with the whole thing recorded at four or five different places -- sometimes with different people performing with other musicians they never actually met.

    I think the 2004 Beautiful Dreamer documentary got it right: that Brian was withdrawn, out of it, and not really into the idea of reviving SMiLE until he was kind of forced into it, and then he some how managed the energy to actually participate in the sessions, come out of the fog, and get the album done. The fact that they were willing to show his metamorphosis in the documentary was very illuminating:

     
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  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I know there's long been theories that Brian's own mental problems caused one set of health issues, then the drugs he took in the 1960s and 1970s caused more problems, and then Landy's questionable therapies created more damage. It's amazing that there's enough of Brian still left that he can still function.

    What I can say is that I saw Brian live at the Hollywood Bowl with one of the SMiLE concerts in late 2004 or early 2005, and he was lethargic, withdrawn, sullen, and seemed kind of indifferent to the huge crowd that lept to their feet to give him a standing ovation. I thought it was very sad, and also remarked at the time that the Wondermints and the band were doing about 90% of the heavy lifting, to the point where it almost would've been as good a show if Brian hadn't shown up. And yet I've seen subsequent videos of Brian performing live where he clearly was having fun, joked with the crowd, and actively participated in what was going on.

    A sidenote: I never really liked the SMiLE album very much, having heard pieces of it many times over the last few decades and wondering what it might have sounded like. I think this was a case where the legend was greater than the reality, and when Brian did the re-recorded solo version in 2004, it was clear to me the energy of the original wasn't there, despite the fact that it was a very well-made, polished production. When the 2011 Beach Boys version finally came out as The SMiLE Sessions, I was impressed by how much tighter it sounded in terms of production, and I think the vocals were far, far better in that version, even though the recording wasn't technically as good. It's taken me several years to grow to like and respect the album, and it's fascinating to reflect on the pieces of the puzzle and how well (or how badly) they wound up fitting together, more than 40 years after the fact.
     
  6. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    Sadly true.
     
  7. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    For sure, Usher's description of the sessions is that they are very much demos. In fact, there are a few times where Usher becomes concerned that Brian may think what they're cutting is the actual album rather than demos.

    Usher was definitely and admittedly angling to try to be the producer of the actual eventual album (and also hoped, and discussions took place, concerning possibly producing a Beach Boys album as well).

    But he seemed to be putting a lot of effort into what he even he knew were demos. He was calling in session musicians and session singers, and he seemed to have a strong affinity for the awful, programmed drums. He mentions several times in the book how Brian was not at all aware of what a "hit" should sound like in 1986 (no doubt true), but the idea of shoehorning Brian into some cheesy 80's sap with saxophones and whatnot was not a good idea either.

    But it's definitely more on the composition side that there are some "Wtf?" moments once you actually compare the book to the recordings. There are also things like Usher's re-written lyrics to Brian's "Still I Dream Of It", published in the book, that are pretty dire.

    But I had to mention again that he seemed like a wonderful guy, and took way more crap from Brian and especially Landy and his squad than he should have, and also took plenty of short-term (and perhaps long-term) financial burdens due to the project as well. There also remain questions about proper credit for Usher on the bits that did end up getting released later.


    The "Beautiful Dreamer" doc is a great look at the process of re-making/re-recording that material. It's unfortunately not nearly as great concerning the overall story of the original album; it ignores and dismisses the other members of the group. There is strong evidence that especially Carl and Dennis were supportive of Brian and the album, and regardless of how much they liked or disliked the material, the rest of the group should have been discussed much more. I'm not sure if they even attempted to get any of the other band members for interviews.
     
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  8. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    I think the problems Brian has these days are due largely to whatever underlying psychological conditions he already had and perhaps has always had, and Landy's medications in the 80's and early 90's. The drug/alcohol abuse in the later 60's and into the 70's and early 80's certainly impacted his health, but it was only in the later 80's and early 90's that Brian started showing many of the tics that he still has, such as the slurred speech, zoning out, etc. If you listen to interviews from, say, the "bed" interview from 1976, his voice still *sounds* normal (if a bit raspy due to smoking), and he seems rather lucid. By the late 80's, he sounded slurred and his interviews were often much more scattered. The stories of Brian showing up at meetings, then stepping away, only to return zombie-like and drooling are some of the more disturbing stories.

    As for Brian these days, I've seen him probably almost a dozen times since he went back out on the road in 1999. He definitely has good days and bad days. The show I caught in 2000, the "Pet Sounds" show, in Saratoga, CA, was not only the best mood I've ever seen Brian in at a concert myself, it's the most "on" I've ever seen or heard him in concert period, including recordings I've seen and heard. He wasn't simply trying to flash some smiles. He was happy. It was perhaps the only time I would truly say he was *enjoying* the show. It wasn't fake smiles or rote singing, or scripted banter. He talked to the audience, he sang his heart out (he didn't even try to "fake" playing the piano, he just sat on his stool and sang into the microphone as if he was in a studio), and he was genuinely happy. He was so happy that at one point he was so loosened up he blurted out to the crowd "How loud can you f***in' yell?" It was incredible. Oh yeah, and he actually sang quite well!

    As for "Smile", I do agree the original sessions are far superior. Those original group vocals can't be beat. I think the 2004 version is great to hear it all stitched together, and to fill in little bits that the original recordings simply can't, including some of the lyrics and, more importantly, lead melodies that we didn't have before. The bit that bridges "Wonderful" and "Look/Song for Children" on the 2004 version is magic, and one of those "a ha!" moments where the different musical bits start to make sense together.

    Back to the "Love and Mercy" film, does anyone know what the average/typical turnaround time is once a company (Lionsgate in this case) picks up a festival film for distribution? I'm sure it can vary wildly. But will this take Lionsgate another year to get a limited theatrical run and even longer before we see it on home video?
     
  9. Maggie

    Maggie like a walking, talking art show

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I believe there has been talk of a Christmas season release. Films, especially American films with recognized stars, that play at festivals like TIFF typically are released during the autumn and winter of the same fiscal year. In my opinion the film would still benefit from a tiny bit of tightening in the editing of a couple of scenes, and maybe the redoing of some looped dialogue. But (assuming the movie is edited digitally) it's like an afternoon's work that still needs to be done.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  10. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    My theory -- one unsupported by any real evidence -- is that the producers and people around Brian had to create "a version" of the original SMiLE album in order to use as a road map, but of course that couldn't be released because it was owned by Capitol, and Brian was on the outs with the group members. He had to re-record all the material in order to make it "original" and then capable of being reissued.

    Once it was reissued and became a commercial success, then Capitol and the Beach Boys' management were forced to consider that there was money being left at the table by not completing SMiLE and allowing the original to be put out. Compilation producer/engineer Mark Linett is careful with how he talks about how the Beach Boys' SMiLE was put together, but I agree with him that if you have a dozen songs in 20 or 30 pieces each, trying to find the right pieces to blend together to create one album would've been impossible in 1966 -- not enough tracks, to many edits, it'd just be a total nightmare. Only with Pro Tools (or Nuendo, which I believe is what Mark uses), then you could load every version of every song on hard drive, quickly go through every take, and figure out how to get the jigsaw back together.
     
  11. Jason Manley

    Jason Manley Senior Member

    Location:
    O-H-I-O
    Another curiousity point about the film that I have is how far past SMiLE does Dano go? What I mean is, do we see Brian in the 70's ("Til I Die")?
     
  12. Maggie

    Maggie like a walking, talking art show

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The last we see of Dano is during the Smile sessions, raving about Phil Spector's mind ninjas and coming up with the pseudo-Hawaiian chant for "Do You Like Worms?" All we see of Brian in the 70s is a short, ambiguous sequence toward the end that's sort of a mix of dream, memory, and hallucination, that's more or less in the first person (so not played by an actor). It's Cusack who has the dream/memory/vision. It's set during the "bed years."
     
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  13. crimpies

    crimpies Forum Resident

    They should have got a third actor for that:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Normally, I don't like Zach Galifinakas, but I gotta say that the resemblance is frightening. And he's definitely crazy / strange / intense enough. Bring in Jeff Foskett to do the singing, and it might actually work.
     
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  15. Although he first met Brian in the mid '70s, it's claimed that Jeff Foskett absolutely despises the "Brian's Back" era and was supposedly the band member responsible for continuing to veto any selections from 15 Big Ones to Adult/Child being played during Wilson's solo performances. Besides, I doubt he could pull off a convincing rough period Brian (due to his being more of a falsetto crutch), and there's little chance the setlist content is going to vary much, even now after his switch over to playing with The Beach Boys again... on the other hand, Darian Sahanaja did once put out an obscure single featuring covers of Sweet Insanity outtake Do You Have Any Regrets? and Love You track I Wanna Pick You Up, both done in a Pet Sounds type lounge style. I'd certainly like to hear Brian revisit songs like Still I Dream Of It with his current voice, but I don't reckon Melinda would be too happy if he was to dust off Marilyn Rovell in particular - that's probably off the cards for even a studio archival release now, I reckon!

    Now that I think about it, who could do justice to some of Brian's most ravaged vocals? I'd have to go with Tom Waits, Elton John or Taylor Hawkins, and let's not forget the latter sang on Dennis' Holy Man for the Legacy Deluxe Edition of Pacific Ocean Blue, so there is precedent, especially when you consider how similar these two Wilson brothers sounded around that point in time.
     
  16. Bruce

    Bruce Senior Member

    Location:
    Florida
    Where is the trailer for this movie?
     
  17. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    That's about as ultimately relevant as Mike Love being the "executive producer" of "That's Why God Made The Radio".
     
  18. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Why is that so interesting? Her kids are long grown up and gone; she has to do something all day.
     
  19. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Any book that Mike Love doesn't like is a book I would rely on. :)
     
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  20. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ikCTZ9QLLjb/learn/reviews/20041102/brian_wilson_smile.html

    This interview is a must read. Darian recounts a very troubling episode during the making of Smile. It's not easy to read something like this about a man we care so much about, but it is important for the Brian Wilson fan to hear about this side of his life and the demons he continues to wrestle with.
     
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  21. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Now that is interesting, because in Wilson's derided "Wouldn't It Be Nice" autobiography, he admits to doing exactly that---manipulating people by playing dumb/crazy when it suited him. Kind of like saying he burned the SMiLE tapes to get people off his back about that topic.
     
  22. heatherly

    heatherly Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    :laugh::laugh:
     
  23. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    Well, in both instances, it connotes someone who may not be super involved in a hands-on way in terms of production, but has some amount of influence/control/veto power.

    In the case of the “TWGMTR” Beach Boys album, the record deal was obtained based largely off of a group of Brian Wilson/Joe Thomas co-writes, so Brian and Joe Thomas were the main forces behind the album. Love certainly got some concessions out of it; in addition to his “Executive Producer” title, he was able to fly in one of his nearly decade-old solo tracks onto the album, was able to add some lyrics to few tunes, and did write at least a couple songs relatively from scratch with Brian and Joe Thomas. In retrospect based on subsequent Love interviews, he seems a bit disgruntled about the fact that he wasn’t more involved in the album. He evidently feels a #3 chart peak isn’t that impressive for a band that hasn’t done a full album of all-new material and with all surviving members participating since 1985, has nearly zero presence on classic rock radio, and had been operating with a diluted version of the band touring non-stop for 15 years. But I digress…

    In the case of Brian’s participation in the “Love & Mercy” film, I’m sure it’s along the lines of many others similar project relationship. He surely wasn’t on set all the time telling them what to do or not to do. But there is usually an implicit editorial hand a director is going to use when the film is “authorized” by its subject, and that subject is a producer on the film.

    With either Brian or Mike as sole “advisors” on a film project, there are potential pitfalls. In the case of Brian, it’s easier to simply minimize the rest of the band, both because he’s the main focus of the film, and because he was the band’s leader and main songwriter/producer for their most productive years, etc. In the case of Mike, as in “An American Family”, there’s no way to minimize the other band members, at least Brian anyway. So instead, there ends up being weird, arguably mischaracterized portrayals of situations to mold whatever viewpoints are at play.

    Brian and the band’s story would still translate best in the form of a long, thorough, sobering and serious documentary that interviews everyone and goes into plenty of detail. Their story is intensely interesting, and even has plenty of salacious, scandalous bits (if that’s what is needed to sell it to studios or distributors) without having to exaggerate or embellish anything.
     
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  24. balzac

    balzac Senior Member

    Concerning the molding of the 2004 version of “Smile”, I agree that Linett and Darian Sahanaja probably did a lot of the up-front work in compiling a general musical timeline for Brian to work from. It’s important to keep in mind that the 2004 version was commissioned as a live performance piece. The original announcements, and subsequent work and arranging, only concerned a live performance for a tour of the UK. There was little doubt among most observers that they would *have* to release it on CD in some form or another eventually. But I believe Brian was consulted early on, and there were some weird seemingly non-Smile bits that were initially thrown into the bucket as, at least in the mind of Brian or someone, potential “Smile” era material. I think things like “Time to Get Alone” were on that original list.

    As far as release of the original Beach Boys material is concerned, I don’t think there has ever been a time when Capitol wouldn’t have released that material. I don’t think their willingness to release the material has ever been a roadblock. I’ve always heard that it was largely Brian that objected. I’ve heard even the other members of the band never were predisposed to block a release of the material. There are the stories of how the compilers had to, in a sense, “sneak” the 30 minutes of “Smile” material on the 1993 “Good Vibrations” boxed set by mixing in plenty of “recognizable” song titles that had subsequently appeared on other albums within that 30 minutes of material.

    I think Brian doing it himself in 2004 was an extension of his continued steps toward reclaiming some Beach Boys-related things for himself. Myself and many fans/scholars relatively accurately predicted how the series of events would unfold. Once Brian willingly revisited the material (2003/2004), he would have to reclaim it as his own and do his tours and album himself. He did this in 2004/2005. Now that he was no longer objecting to the material because he inherently just didn’t want to deal with that era or revisit it, the only roadblock to release the BB sessions would be that it would detract from the glory of his solo version, which did sell pretty well (for a Brian solo album) and got pretty great reviews both from the live performances and the album, eventually resulting in a grammy (sort of a token gesture to him in a sense, but a grammy nonetheless). Once Brian had moved on to other solo endeavors, I felt a release of the BB sessions would happen. Once time passed, coupled with better editing technology to stitch it together and a target for the project to act as a springboard towards (in this case the band’s 50th anniversary tour and album), it finally happened.

    But Capitol would never have needed convincing to put the original sessions out. They may have questioned the size and scope of the project (they apparently needed convincing to add more space/discs to the eventual “Smile Sessions” set), but in 1988 or 1998 or any time, they would have put the stuff out if they had been able to. While Capitol owns the material recorded by the group in the 60’s, the Beach Boys/Brother control any release of archival material, even from the 60’s (they of course own outright most of their post-1969 recorded output).
     
  25. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I got the impression that the Beach Boys themselves would have to vote on whether the original 1960s SMiLE prject could be released on CD, for the simple reason that they'd want to renegotiate as to who got paid and how it was credited. The fact that Mike Love sued Brian over the 2004 solo version tells me there's still some bad feelings there.
     
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