Buffalo Springfield Again Mono

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SteveSDCA, Jul 14, 2004.

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  1. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    There was that, but there was more. They had a big media event at some hall for the release of the first album, with purple balloons, press kits, wine, the whole nine yards. Nobody thought to bring a single corkscrew. After which three members were busted on charges that including underage girls and some weed (charges later dropped). They were saddled with an adhesive manager who also did a number on It's a Beautiful Day. The best career move Jefferson Airplane ever made was getting loose from him after their first album. He owned the band's name and had another version of Moby Grape out touring. Then to have two key members become diagnosed schizophrenics, it was all too much. I can't think if any band that would have been able to overcome all of that before they could even get any initial momentum, maybe not even the Beatles.
     
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  2. fr in sc

    fr in sc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hanahan, SC
    And didn't one of the band members join the Marines? IIRC everyone he knew was slamming the Vietnam War and the military and he thought "I should know what I'm talking about if I'm going to protest this" and enlisted to find out first-hand and Rolling Stone, et al slammed him and the band unmercifully.
    Yeah, talk about a snakebit outfit!!
     
  3. MarcS

    MarcS Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    It was probably a combination of that and a lot of other things. The name of the band was kind of silly, they were inconsistent live when they were outside of SF, the mixing on the 1st album is a little strange, and there was probably backlash to a lot of the hype. I don't think the album didn't take off because of some cork screws or drug busts. If they could have maintained the consistency of the 1st album with some better production and toured consistently they probably would have been bigger but alas, it wasn't to be.
     
  4. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    So, Buffalo Springfield Again and Last Time Around?
     
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  5. fr in sc

    fr in sc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hanahan, SC
    Seems like over half the postings on this thread have been about the various versions of "Mr. Soul," but to me the real keeper of the mono Again is "Hung Upside Down." The guitars don't have that disjointed sound like they're lobbing from one speaker to the other and Richie's vocals are mixed up while Steve's are mixed down. You used to be able to hear the whole mono LP on YouTube but now most of the tracks have been yanked by WMG :cussing:
    As Richie said in a recent interview, Buffalo Springfield Again was their White Album; I wish Neil would get off the schneid and re-release the mono version before we all fade away.
     
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  6. MarcS

    MarcS Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Rock and Roll Woman also has a loud gnarly guitar chord ending on the mono only.
     
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  7. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    My recollection is the overall sound on Hung Upside Down is more clear and punchy as well.
     
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  8. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    The Rhino "Summer of Love" series was the perfect opportunity for that, now gone by the wayside. Between that series and various Sundazed and audiophile label reissues, virtually every single important classic rock album from 1967 has been reissued in mono fairly recently on vinyl, or CD, or both EXCEPT "Again", which stands out like a very sore thumb in that regard. Other than that, the only others are the Monkees LPs from that year. I guess Neil just has to stick to being a "temperamental Canadian artist" like Glenn Gould and Leonard Cohen, and keep blocking the release of that mono mix of "Again". Remember how long he similarly sat on "On the Beach", blocking reissue on CD?
     
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  9. fr in sc

    fr in sc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hanahan, SC
    True dat! I jumped out of the chair the first time I heard it!
     
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  10. fr in sc

    fr in sc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hanahan, SC
    Boy, howdy! "Everydays" also seems punchier. We need to have an intervention with a certain Canadian, methinks!
     
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  11. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Good luck with that. Knowing him he would likely just double down on continuing to block it in response. Maybe the answer is to try a little reverse psychology, and somehow make him think that nobody gives a flying rat's patoot about the mono anymore. But how to pull that off with all the water already passed under the bridge?

    I already have a good NM- mono copy of "Again", but I'd like to see Analogue Productions or Speaker's Corner have a crack at it in mono. MFSL would work for me sonically as well, but I would prefer the cover without that annoying MFSL top strip. Even Sundazed would work out OK, except I would prefer a sturdy tip-on jacket to the posterboard that Sundazed usually uses.

    Also an SACD with both mono and stereo mixes would be nice, and Analogue Productions would be more likely to do that (see Beach Boys) than MFSL (see Dylan and Byrds). This album is deserving of so much better treatment than it has gotten, and fully merits hi-res treatment in any case. More's the pity that it is not the labels that are causing the problem but one or more band members, instead of the other way around. Having the ENTIRE "Again" LP in stereo on the Buffalo Springfield box TWICE with no mono, while also having both mono and stereo mixes for the debut album (when NOBODY likes the stereo mix) is tantamount to an extended middle finger to longtime fans.

    Let's understand that while the mono mix for "Again" is certainly very different from the stereo, preferable to the stereo, and is all the more highly desirable due to its rarity, even the stereo mix was not exactly chopped liver. The stereo definitely is not the amateurish botch-up job as it had been for the debut album, and was done with some competence, even if tossed off by a staff engineer or glorified intern after lunch. And like most titles newly released from June 1967 until mono phaseout was complete in June 1968 in US (and UK at end of 1968), stereo is what I was accustomed to hearing when I grew into that title. So having both would be a good thing, but the mono is the key as it has been unavailable in any format since original release.

    Come to think of it, would it be a little interesting to hear what Steven Wilson would do with, say, "Broken Arrow" in hi-res 5.1? Talk about dreamin'...
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
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  12. fr in sc

    fr in sc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hanahan, SC
    Hear, hear, to your entire post!
    Or how about "Expecting to Fly" in hi-res 5.1?
     
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  13. 0476pearljam

    0476pearljam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    I have read this thread and the consensus seem to be that buffalo springfield again is better in mono than in stereo. But that consensus was made before the mono one was widely available (last post is april 2018 and the box set is from july 2018).

    Is this consensus to be revisited now that the mono and stereo version are available since 2018 in the springfield box set or is it safe to assume that the mono is the one to buy ? I am asking this question because i hesitate between the stereo version (rhino 2019 summer campaign) or the mono lp (as stand alone from the box set).
     
  14. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    That consensus was fully visited plenty of times in past threads, long before the recent box. I think even our host once weighed in favoring the mono mix. Others have said that preference is track by track.

    The short answer from this corner is, make sure you get 'em both, grasshopper. The more detailed answer follows.

    My own view is that although I definitely favor the mono mix myself, you should really have both mixes, as actual preference may be track by track. Unlike the debut album, which had a rather amateurish stereo mix done by the band's manager without band member permission or input, the "Again" stereo mix may actually have had band member input precisely because of what had happened previously. That would be unusual for the mono era, even so late in the mono era. In any event, the stereo mix for "Again" is certainly better executed than was the case for the debut album, and any band input would make it authoritative as well. So I would say make sure you have both.

    Almost all rock and pop albums released before June 1968 have a unique mono mix which is preferred precisely because that mono mix ALONE is authoritative, with the artist, producer and top engineer working sometimes for days to get the sound right for mono, the way ALL of it would be marketed (mono AM radio) and most of it would be sold. After the artist and producer signed off on the mono mix and went home, then the label would send in some lowly staff engineer, almost a glorified intern really, after lunch to knock out a stereo mix in a couple of hours with ZERO input from the artist and producer, based solely on what HE thought it should sound like. There ARE a dozen or so notable exceptions in pop and rock, including Beatles after 1964 and Beach Boys as far back as 1965's "Today". Brian Wilson was all over both the stereo and mono mixes for all Beach Boys albums at least after 1964, submitting both mixes (his own, really) to Capitol for cutting, with exception of "Pet Sounds", which at the time he decided should be mono only, even though he had the multitracks to make a perfectly fine stereo mix as well (which he finally did supervise some thirty years later when he could have done it at the time of original release).

    So the general rule should be that for virtually all rock and pop releases prior to 1968 requiring mixing from work tapes, one should always seek out the mono and the mono only, as those mixes alone are authoritative presentations of what the artists and producers wanted the listener to hear, subject to the above mentioned notable cases where one should always STILL seek out the mono version, but also the stereo as well due to artist and producer input making both mixes authoritative.

    As for "Again" in particular, I don't know from my own personal knowledge whether any members of Buffalo Springfield or Jack Nietszche were actually involved in the stereo mix in fact, but I do know that the band members were pretty frosted about the stereo mix of the previous debut album, done without even their permission much less input. I think that makes their potential involvement in the stereo mix all the more likely than would normally have been the case up to that time, thus making "Again" one of those exceptions like those mentioned above. Another factor is the fact that Nietszche's added orchestration on tracks like "Expecting to Fly" and "Broken Arrow" makes at least his participation in any stereo mix more likely as well.
     
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  15. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL



    Further answering, why rely on me, here is a link to some nuggets from our esteemed host:

    Buffalo Springfield Again Mono
     
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Be sure to keep reading through the thread, as some incorrect information in posted early on, notably regarding Mr. Soul.
     
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  17. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    When it comes to 1960s rock/teen pop music, I almost always prefer the mono, but for me, I start to prefer stereo by 1968 if not a little earlier. Some of the mono mixes that disappointed me include The Notorious Byrd Brothers, Village Green, Ogden's, but I prefer each of those artists' prior albums in mono.

    I've heard Buffalo Springfield Again in both mono and stereo, and it is a track-by-track preference for me. Some of the tracks in stereo have a very nice spread. The mono versions of a few tracks sound a little claustrophobic, and the drums are louder than necessary on a few IMO. It's been years since I've spun either, so I would have to revisit, but that is my recollection.
     
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  18. 0476pearljam

    0476pearljam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Thanks for your very instructive answer...My "rule" is always try to find mono if it's before 1968 and stereo if it's 1969 and after...For 1968, i never know exactly what to do...And for 1967, I tend to prefer mono but there are some cases where I am not so sure, records that are also in a way meant to be heard in stereo...an example is electric music for the mind and the body by country Joe and the fish ...mono or stereo ? I don't know...
     
  19. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    That's pretty much my rule of thumb, any release BEFORE 1968, ALWAYS get at least the mono, with about a dozen exceptions for getting BOTH the stereo and the mono. For my pre-1968 exceptions (to get the stereo and the mono both), I already mentioned Beatles and Beach Boys after 1964 for sure, and of course Buffalo Springfield Again, but I also forgot to include Hendrix (Are You Experienced, Axis) and the first three Paul Butterfield Blues Band LPs (don't know who was involved in those stereo mixes, but they sound damn fine).

    AFTER 1968 ALWAYS get the stereo. Really no exceptions.

    But DURING 1968, it's title by title. Any US title released after end of May, NEVER get the mono as it will be UK only mono, and by definition a fold since no mono mix would have been sent by US to UK. Exception would be Cheap Thrills (August). Even before end of May, watch out for the Steppenwolf debut in "mono", as many copies had side 2 error pressed in stereo anyway (see deadwax). And worse, the killer mix for "Born to Be Wild" is the mono single mix only. The mono album mix is fairly flaccid by comparison. So I wouldn't bother with eBay roulette for that one. "Bookends" in April I understand to contain some folds.

    During 1968 AFTER end of May watch even UK releases in UK mono for folds, as early as "Wheels of Fire" in June. "Shine on Brightly" and Tull's"This Was" are nothing special in mono, but easy to get on the well mastered CD sets anyway. Beggar's Banquet in December? UK only fold. But Jeff Beck "Truth", Kinks "Village Green", Traffic's debut and the Beatles White Album are all great in mono, and in all those cases I would absolutely get both. So rule of thumb for 1968 is that there is no rule of thumb, just title by title.
     
  20. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    Totally in accord on "Again". For "Expecting to Fly" and "Broken Arrow" in particular, I wouldn't want to be without the stereo. My view has always been to get both and then you can't go wrong.

    I hate to say I disagree on Notorious and Village Green, for which I really like both mixes stereo and mono alike. For mono mixes that disappoint prior to 1968, one of my votes does go to Aftermath. Surprisingly.
     
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  21. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Well, we all have our preferences.

    Just curious, did you hear the US mono Aftermath, which was a fold, or did you hear the real deal? That is an album I like in both mono and stereo.
     
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  22. weaselriot

    weaselriot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL

    For "Aftermath", my recollection was that the one I didn't like was the UK mono, but then again my bigger reason for not liking the UK either way was the tracklist (always preferred the US for that). Didn't know the US mono was a fold, and I am left wondering why anything would be a fold in 1966.

    I understand about variable preferences, and my own preferences might even shift with changes in gear or listening room (which I consider to be part of gear anyway). For both "Notorious" and "Village Green", stereo was my only version from the beginning and for decades thereafter, which I never had a problem with. And both being from 1968, I suspect that the artists and producers by that time surely saw the handwriting on the wall and were beginning to participate in stereo mixes as much as mono. I suspect that they would have been further goaded for marketing reasons by the rise of commercial FM rock in stereo, already underway since fall of 1967. But I do like the mono of both titles, and in general, I feel that during the relatively short period of 1968 (when the US mono phaseout wrapped up by June, and the UK mono phaseout began and largely concluded by December) I have no trouble trying to get both, except for folds.

    Speaking of preferences, among 1968 and later unique mono mixes, the Kinks mono I didn't care much for was Arthur. And I felt that "Shine on Brightly" and Tull's "This Was" were nothing special at all. I have both, but only as part of deluxe CD sets that also include the best digital versions of both albums in stereo. And the "mono" Steppenwolf debut album from January 1968 isn't worth any effort at all. The mono album mix of "Born to Be Wild" is limp and flaccid (the killer mono mix is on the single only), and then side two is frequently error pressed in stereo anyway. I'll pass.

    There is a late (1970!) Ten Years After "Cricklewood Green" with a supposedly unique mono mix, but I can scarcely imagine that bringing anything at all to the table. I don't even understand why Deram would even have bothered by that late date, with virtually all airplay for that album being on FM stereo anyway. But then again, Deram always struck me as a pretty weird label, as also demonstrated by a mono only Procol Harum debut album with fake stereo as late as fall 1967. Strange.
     
  23. varispeed

    varispeed what if?

    Location:
    Los Angeles Ca
    My own personal vote is always the stereo Buffalo Springfield Again. That's the one I bought the day it was released in Oct 1967 and that's the one that works for me. I'd been buying the singles ahead of the album release and those had their interesting sounds and mixes. The band had its sound in the live gigs I'd go watch, so that was always pounding in my head.

    The stereo mix of Again completed the perfect essence that the band was at that moment in my mind.

    I bought the mono version way later. I dunno.... the mono version never did anything for me.
     
  24. discodoc

    discodoc Member

    Location:
    United States
    Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but how do the original Atlantic UK mono pressings of Again compare to the ATCO?
     
  25. Adam9

    Adam9 Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй.

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Make sure the UK is not a fold like the Canadian one.
     
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