Buffalo Springfield's "Last Time Around"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mr_mjb1960, Nov 14, 2006.

  1. Chris M

    Chris M Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA

    Whatever Happened to Saturday Night is incredible. One of my 3 or 4 favorite unreleased songs of all. I really love how Furay handles Neil's songs.
     
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  2. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    My feeling about the brass/strings overdub is this - it adds a little bit of "color" and doesn't get in the way (it's actually pretty down in the mix). Yet with it gone, the song sounds kind of empty IMO.

    Just you! ;)

    Funny...I heard the box set before Decade, and I didn't care for Down To The Wire much at all. I didn't "get it" until I heard the Neil version on Decade. Still prefer that one.
     
  3. Mister Kite

    Mister Kite Active Member

    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    Getting back to the original question. I am not sure a reissue is even necessary. I have both of these and think they sound fine. :hide: The HDCD version has better dynamic range and more presence (as one would expect) but, I think Gastwirt did a good job the first time around. As always, YMMV.
     
  4. Mister Kite

    Mister Kite Active Member

    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    Yeah, the mono version is certainly a revelation! :righton:

    Yep. Another great mono mix here!

    For a real change of pace, check out the the Mojo Men version of Sit Down I Think I Love You produced by Van Dyke Parks. Now there is a quirky little single!
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Audiophile Mastering Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles

    Have not read this thread.

    My original ATCO LP (that my Dad kindly bought for me) sounded like mud back then and still does. The first issue CD sounds much better.

    Are you guys saying that this fine album is solely leftover outtakes from the first two albums? I really find that hard to believe.
     
  6. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    No.

    Nothing from the first album sessions.

    Pretty Girl Why was from '67. Early "Again" sessions. Different solo from an early rough mix, although it's unknown when that was done.

    IIRC, everything else was done later. Several tracks in the spring of '68.

    It's a crime that Whatever Happened to Saturday Night and What A Day weren't used for Last Time Around. Both *amazing* unreleased tracks. Also a crime that Neil Young mixed WHTSN to mono for the box. WTF?
     
  7. Aftermath

    Aftermath Forum Resident

    As for unreleased songs, here is "Neil's song list for an unrecorded album" supposedly from January of '68, and taken from the book by Einarson and Furay:

    1. Steve's Long Song 10.00 (Steve)
    2. Telephone Pole 2.30 (Neil)
    3. I Guess You Made It 2.30 (Richie)
    4. Whatever Happened to Saturday? 3.00 (Neil)

    1. Old Laughing Lady (Steve and Neil)
    2. Uno Mundo? (Steve)
    3. What A Day (Richie)
    4. Kind Woman (Richie)
    5. Sell Out (Neil)
    6. Just Cant Seem to Get Movin (Richie and ?-illegible)
    7. I am A Child (Neil)
    8. Not Quite Rain (? and Richie)
    9. Nobody's Fool (Richie)

    Obviously a work in progress since the numbering restarts. A bunch of Stills stuff isn't here, including Questions, Four Days Gone, and Special Care, nor is Neil's On the Way Home.

    Always have wondered what "Steve's Long Song" represented...
     
  8. MikeM

    MikeM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    I had a boot with both versions long before Decade came out, and I always preferred the Stills/Furay version. But then, I'm a harmony guy, and the harmonies they do on it are particularly cool.

    I had a band in the mid-70s that had this version it its repertoire. But then, I had a band in the early 70s that used to do "Winterlong" and "I'm Wonderin'" too!
     
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  9. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    It's been a while, but isn't "Telephone Pole" actually On The Way Home?

    Interesting that some of those tracks were apparently recorded (re-recorded?) a few months after that.
     
  10. Chief

    Chief Over 9231 Served

    It's hard to believe for a good reason. It isn't true. The earliest song is "Pretty Girl Why" (Feb 27, 1967), everything else was recorded with the idea that there would be a third album. That album was never completed by the group, so its sometimes said that Jimmy and Richie compiled it from leftovers.

    Here is what I have:

    Feb 26 1967:
    Pretty Girl Why (supervised by Ahmet Ertegun, the earliest song to appear on Last Time Around)

    November 15, 1967 (Sunset Sound):
    On The Way Home (unfinished - working title "Telephone Pole")

    Buffalo Springfield Again released (Nov 1967)

    Sessions begin for a third album...

    December 1967:
    * Who's The Next Fool/I Guess You Made It (remake)
    * Whatever Happened To Saturday Night
    * On The Way Home (additional work)

    Jan 1968:
    * No One Left To Please (early version of "49 Bye Byes")
    * Steve's Long Song (no one can recall what this even is)
    * In The Hour Of Not Quite Rain (uncertain of date)
    * What A Day (Jan 1968)
    * Special Care (Jan 1968 - all Stills, Buddy Miles on drums)


    Feb-March 1968:
    * Fa-Fa-Fa (Otis Redding cover)
    * Uno Mundo (March 1968)
    * Can't Keep Me Down (early version of "Do You Feel It Too"; From The Inside, 1971.
    * Birds (Neil solo demo)
    * Its So Hard To Wait (March 1968)
    * Kind Woman (March 1968 - Richie, session players on piano, bass, drums, Rusty Young on steel, Messina)
    * The Old Laughing Lady (group cut)
    * Questions (all Stills, Jimmy Carstein on drums, Bruce possibly on bass)
    * Four Days Gone (unidentified standup bass player, also Neil later claimed that Messina used the wrong Stills vocal and that it was "probably one of the grooviest songs he ever wrote. And it's just the record of it didn't do it justice")
    * Merry Go Round (Jimmy Carstein on drums)
    * Carefree Country Day (probably on track with all 5 current band members)
    * I Am A Child (Feb 1968 - all Neil, Dewey on drums, bass by receptionist's boyfriend)

    May 1968:
    After May 5, the band is effectively over. The track listing with "Steve Long Song" was heard by Atco at some point, and those songs (or their presentation) were deemed to be not sufficient for an album. So Jimmy and Richie put the the real album together, overdubbed certain parts (including the horns on "On The Way Home"). Stills and Young were absent at this point.

    Last Time Around released (July 1968)
     
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  11. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Forum Resident

    Just to re-emphasize what's already been noted by TheChief...Yeah, "Telephone Pole" was just the working title for "On The Way Home", and was always meant for the third album.

    Also, I sure as hell hope that Neil is kept the solo demo of "Birds" off the box set, so he could use it for his "Archives" series. Just another of the millions of things wrong with that box. Neil's generated a bunch of angry B.Springfield fans with that thing, he'd be wise to make up for it in the future.

    I'm also a little surprised that "Pretty Girl Why" couldn't find room on 'Again', even if it was a different mix. But maybe I'm just saying that because I think it's one of the best Stills songs on 'LTA'.

    Lastly, does anyone have any real concrete info about the unreleased 'Stampede', and what happened to it? I guess it was supposed to come out in summer '67, right? I don't know if there was any tracklisting set in stone, but I'm assuming it was simply an early reject of the 'Again' album. (with most of the songs reappearing on said album, except for odd exceptions for "Down To The Wire"). I just find it odd that, following the success of FWIW during winter '66/'67, there would have been any problems with Atlantic/Atco about it. Has its demise simply been greatly exaggerated over the years? (I can't remember what I read about it in Rogan's B.Springfield book)
     
  12. Chris M

    Chris M Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baton Rouge, LA
    I want to thank TheCheif for posting that list. A group version of The Old Laughing Lady :eek: I wonder why that was left off the box..
     
  13. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Forum Resident

    Neil seemed to make it a point to keep as much to himself for the "Archives" series, as he could get away with. But I don't think he successfully fooled too many people...
     
  14. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    All my vinyl pressings (so far) of Last Time Around do sound duller than the CD. This is one of those cases where the individual CDs of Buffalo Springfields first and third LPs are worth getting, even if one has the box set. The first album because of the stereo tracks not on the box set, and Last Time Around because its not complete on the box set. Plus, they sound so doggone nice (I'm speaking of the HDCD remasters here).

    Their first album sounds fairly close to the HDCD (slight nod to the CD). But Again - the original Atco vinyl - is their nicest cut album. Noticeably richer, fuller, and smoother than the CD.
     
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    <cough>

    My understanding is it was basically a cover, nothing more.
     
  16. Chief

    Chief Over 9231 Served

    I don't have any info on how Buffalo Springfield Again was compiled. They played "Pretty Girl Why" at Monterey, so clearly they thought highly of the song. Could be politics... (does anyone really prefer "Good Time Boy" to "Pretty Girl Why"?)

    What he said.... there were 100,000 covers printed if I recall correctly. But it was record company wishful thinking. Buffalo Springfield never intended to release an album called Stampede.
     
  17. ronbow

    ronbow Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    That's my understanding also, that they were anxious for a second album and were trying to goose things along. I don't think there was ever a real track-listing for "Stampede".
     
  18. As long as there is SO much Springfield info here might as well add this in regards to the long version of Bluebird. From what I had read, somehow a California DJ started playing this bootleg version and it caught on quickly on the then popular FM AOR format radio stations. I remember hearing it a lot in my native city of Baltimore Maryland on the college radio stations. It somehow got included on the Atco double LP compilation back in the 70's reportedly unauthorized by the band. WHen asked about that version both Neil and Stephen reply that they not only know how it EVER got out but both of them absolutely HATE it!! So don't ever expect it to be included on any future issue. I personally love it and am happy to have a mint LP pressing of that collection!
     
  19. mr_mjb1960

    mr_mjb1960 I'm a Tarrytowner 'Til I die!

    The "Bluebird" track was also on the "Superstars Of the '70's" 2-Lp collections as well (I think it was on Vol.2 of the series) It was That Long version you were talking about here.:love: Check it out if you can find it(I think they were selling some copies on e-Bay)! :winkgrin: Michael Boyce
     
  20. MikeM

    MikeM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    But remember, the long "Bluebird" on the double-LP set is NOT the version that was played by radio stations. There are some significant differences between these two versions.
     
  21. ronbow

    ronbow Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
  22. Chief

    Chief Over 9231 Served

    Correct. It didn't even have a back cover listing of songs a la Smile. When some of the unreleased stuff popped up, stuff like "Neighbor Don't You Worry", "We'll See", and "My Kind Of Love", the bootlegger called it "Stampede".

    I think all of the differences are in the second half. At one point another hardcore Still/BS fan and I did a measure by measure analysis of the two versions. And... I have no idea where it is. My recollection is that we determined that the backing track on the second half is the same take, but the guitar overdubs are different. I can't remember what accounts for the difference in length - could be offspeed.
     
  23. MikeM

    MikeM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    I do know that on the bootleg I have, the long "Bluebird" is extremely slow...a half-step or more down in pitch from the Again version. I long ago pitched it up, and this is what I still listen to when I want to hear it. I don't have the double-LP set, though I have a long-lost tape of it somewhere!

    But I think you're right...I don't recall any major differences until the second half.
     
  24. lukpac

    lukpac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Kind of a random tangent, but...

    There are at least two distinct pressings/cuttings of the 2 LP set. One is nice and full-bodied with great stereo separation, while the other is a bit thin and has tons of crosstalk. Of the two copies I have, I think one is all bad, while the other is a mix. At the very least, side 2 (with Bluebird) is good.

    I can't say I've heard a ton of others, but the dub I've done smokes everything else I've heard.
     
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  25. stevef

    stevef Active Member

    Location:
    Irvine, CA

    Luke...

    Of those two distinct pressing that you have...are there two different catalogue numbers for that long OOP double vinyl album?

    Thanks...

    (Also, I would love to hear your dub.)

    Steve
     

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