Based on the assumption that Bob Irwin has no reason to lie about this (why deny that you have a remixed an album that's famous for sounding terrible?) I tend to suspect that there might have been a tape or set of tapes between the first finished album master and the cutting master, which made some edits to the "first" master and possibly added some reverb (perhaps to disguise perceived deficiencies in the performances). Perhaps Irwin returned to the "first" finished album master, thinking this hypothetical "second" master was a cutting master? That way, he could have plausibly been unaware of any differences with the original release. The only evidence I have for this is that the 1997 versions of "This Wheel's On Fire," "Child of the Universe," and "Candy" (and perhaps other tracks too) all include a few seconds of material not present on previous releases, although they do not otherwise sound like different mixes to me (clearer sound notwithstanding). This also happened on Younger and Mr Tambourine Man, but I believe the affected tracks have been acknowledged as remixes. Perhaps the edits, reverb, and EQ all happened at the cutting master stage, though. I'm not sure if that was the kind of thing that could happen at the time. If it was, my hypothetical "second tape" would not be required. Still, if the original LP was a copy of a copy (cutting master) of a copy ("second" edited master) of a copy ("first" master) of a copy (original multitracks), that might explain its cloudy sound.
There's also the audible "thirty" heard as "This Wheel's on Fire" is starting, which would necessitate at least that song being a completely different mix. Bob Irwin's credibility has taken a bit of a hit over on the Safe As Milk mono thread, but as you said there is no plausible reason why he would lie about remixing an album when nobody likes the original mix and he's been completely upfront about remixing several other albums. Your theory that there's an alternate master that Irwin used inadvertently seems the most likely explanation... in fact, the only really plausible explanation.
I read about this on Twitter today thought that was a really cool idea, didn't realise it was put together by someone on here. Best of luck with it, hope you have a good response, having Johnny Rogan there should be a great draw for any Byrds/Clark fans in the area. I have a few trips already organised this year otherwise I might have persuaded my wife that a trip to Dublin would have been a fine idea at the end of May.
Your event sounds incredible. Please report back here the release date of Requiem for the Timeless Volume 2. Be sure to nail Rogan down on a release date!! Lol
You may very well be onto something here. However it happened, the '97 master sounds tremendous and gets a healthy dose of spins around these parts!
It's a looong story which can be read in detail on this thread. Basically, it comes down to the fact that the Safe As Milk mono CD released on Sundazed is actually sourced from a hybrid needle drop/stereo fold-down, despite Sundazed implying in their marketing that it was sourced from the long-lost mono master tape.
Hmmmm. Having met Bob & spoken to him a number of times, I have to say he is a very pleasant fellow. I could ask him about Safe As Milk but I'm not going to. I'm sure the detectives in that thread have put in many thousands of hours on the case, but I would not have the nerve to accuse Bob's company of deceptive practices.
The whole thing is really puzzling. There is no doubt that CD is derived from a needle drop with numerous sections of folded-down stereo mix edited in. So unfortunately, it's a fact that they have been deceptive. The big mystery is why. Irwin and Sundazed have done great work in the past, and based on the interviews with him I've read Irwin seems like a sincere guy who cares about the music, so it's strange to see something like this being done.
Thanks. I've been trying to nail Johnny R down for a release date for quite a while! Ha ha. Originally he said late 2015 but then he got caught up with his Ray Davies book. I believe he has the text written, but is now concentrating on notes, discography etc. As we know how methodical he can be, that could take a while...
I hadn't looked at that thread until just now, but damn! You know, I've always thought there was some funny business going on at Sundazed as far as mono mixes go. To make a long story short, I thought there were several examples where they were clearly taking modern stereo mixes, folding them down to mono, and passing them off as "vintage" mixes, often on vinyl. Of course, I'm referring to Cancelled Flytes. This has always been curious to me, considering how good and authentic their stereo releases (at least the ones I have) have been.
I was being a little facetious there. I hope you will post some video clips of the event, especially a snippet of Rogan reading from the upcoming book. Hope you all have a great time
Good point. Also, the record would have been better with Gene's "Here Tonight" and Roger's "I'm so Restless" and "Heave Away," in my opinion. If Dylan had written "Tangled Up in Blue" by then, I think that it could have sounded great with Roger's vocal, kind of like his interpretation of "Up to Me" on Cardiff Rose.
Last weekend I scored a VG+++ of vinyl Cardiff Rose, c 1976, a record I have never heard before. Listened to it today and really really liked liked it. Nice hearing something new.
If I wanted to make sure I owned every Byrds recording featuring Gene Clark in some way, what would I need to purchase besides: Mr. Tambourine Man Turn! Turn! Turn! 5th Dimension Notorious Byrd Brothers Byrds Preflyte Plus Am I missing any stray tracks on box sets, compilations, etc.?
There are the two tracks on Road master that feature the 5 original Byrds. Also Never Before has some tracks including The Day Walk.
I'll definitely be exploring his solo career; while I like most stages of the Byrds I find that it's the Gene Clark songs that I keep turning to. I have the '97 versions of the Byrds' discography so most of Never Before is represented as bonus tracks (as far as I can tell, everything featuring Gene is included). Thanks!
I've always preferred the original Preflyte version of "She Has A Way", but none of the versions on the Preflyte Sessions double sounds like it to me. Am I crazy?
You do need Never Before and In The Beginning as mixes are different. You need Flying High for alt versions of those Roadmaster tracks, you need Roger's first album for My New Woman, you need the Japanese Roadmaster for more alt versions of the two Roadmaster tracks... The 90's boxset also has some unique mixes on it. Cancelled Flytes and Columbia Singles on vinyl Sundazed for more unique mixes.... It's a mine field!!!
Btw Notorious Byrd Brothers probably doesn't feature Gene other than his songwriting contribution to Get To You which he wrote with Roger - not Chris. Some rumours that he is on Goin Back and Space Odyssey but unfounded.
Yes, if you don't care about unique mixes, then there's no tracks on Never Before featuring Gene that aren't on the 1997 remasters. So, to sum up, you need: 1. "She's the Kind of Girl" and "One in a Hundred" two 1970 recordings which are most easily found on Gene's solo album Roadmaster or as bonus tracks on the 2014 Raven Records reissue of the Byrds' 1973 reunion album. As noted, there are different mixes of these tracks on various releases. 2. "My New Woman"- a McGuinn-sung outtake from the 1973 reunion that appeared on his self-titled first solo album. Technically it's not a Byrds recording, but you're right that it's a track that features all five original Byrds...
