Cables (rca or balanced) from phono preamp to processor

I am not trying to start a discussion on whether or not quality cables matter, I am in need of some guidance.

I am setting up a system which will be a Polytable Super12 TT (Hana SL cart) that’s connected to a Parasound JC 3+ phono preamp. Since the JC 3+ can output balanced or unbalanced I can take recommendations for both. The JC 3+ will connect to an Emotiva XMC-1 processor, I only include the specific components as I am unsure if it will effect opinions?

So long story short, what are some high performing cables in the $300-$400 range (both cables 1.5m). Thanks for any input!

 

A top set of balanced star earthed cables will set you back about 50 bucks. if the option is there to use balanced over rca use it, it is just better, end of.

 

Are you running a balanced from the arm? If not, is there any advantage at all to running unbalanced from the phono to the phono stage and then balanced to the integrated?

 

The tone arm to phono preamp is a Kimber TAK CU 1 which is unbalanced.

 

That would need a balanced phono preamp, which is something way out there in left field - you'd need to put XLRs on your turntable and need to ensure there isn't any connection between the coils and ground, which sometimes cartridges even do internally. Balanced doesn't go over RCA, because RCAs are not inherently mirrored + and -, and wouldn't have a separate ground shielding.

Here's such a preamp for a pretty penny, but any noise benefit of using XLRs evaporates when they are connected to tubes. Aptly reviewed by someone who says his $1000 power cord is well worth the cost: SoundStage! Equipment Review - Atma-Sphere MP-3 Mk III Preamplifier (10/2008)

Both line-level components have balanced XLR; if you don't use it, you'll always be wondering, just like you'll always be wondering how your Honda Civic will perform if you put Y rated 186mph tires on it. It will have theoretical benefits in noise rejection to use a balanced interconnect, in fact, you can specify less esoteric cables and expect them to perform favorably.

Asking for $400 cables, though, is imagining that there is more return when you spend more money. There's a price point above which the amount you spend has little correspondence to the quality you get, and it's about 1/10th that price for interconnects.

Why not go for a cable with Neutrik crystalCon XLR connectors, the most expensive ones Neutrik makes at $18 each, which, with Swarovski crystals decorating the connector housing, at least give you something tangible for your money. Neutrik or Switchcraft makes quality connectors otherwise, about $5 each.

 

I run balanced throughout.

First off, if you are using a balanced phono stage you do not need XLR's on your arm. The regular 5-pin DIN on an arm works perfectly in this regard, with four pins used for cartridge connections and both cable shields commoned to the centre pin (which connects to the arm tube and other mechanical parts). Then each XLR plug at the ends of the cable receives +/- and shield for each channel. Provided the shield on pin 1 of each XLR is connected directly to the phono stage chassis you now have a Faraday cage connecting the arm tube to the phono stage chassis. That you have two shields connected is neither here nor there. You get absolutely no hum whatever, and no faffing about with additional earthing wires which are often needed with RCA's to minimise hum.

I use Neutrik EMC XLR throughout. These incorporate capacitive coupling between Pin 1 and the XLR body, and a ferrite bead on Pin 1. So it gets rid of any RF coming through the shield and makes sure that the whole XLR plug is electrically bonded together.

For arm to phono stage I use a Cardas 5-pin DIN socket at one end, then Cardas 33x4 shielded, which I run as star quad on each XLR input channel. Everything else is line level and is wired using the same stuff as recording studios use by the kilometer, and through which your music has gone on its way to the record. Either Belden shielded balanced, or Van Damme shielded star quad, all of which cost buttons.

The only slight gotcha with line level balanced is in signal to noise ratio (note, line level, not phono stage). The reason is that an unbalanced input is fairly straightforward to design with very low noise: down to -120dBu. But many balanced input stages use fairly standard single op-amp input which has around -105dBu, so 15dB noisier. Even if you use the otherwise excellent THAT balanced input chips, you still only get around -110dBu (because of high value resistors in the chip itself). You can actually get very close to the unbalanced noise, but only at the expense of rather complex circuitry with many op-amps.

It also needs to be said that only very, very few pieces of audiophile balanced gear is balanced throughout, and are usually jaw droppingly expensive. More usually there is a balanced to unbalanced stage at input, and an unbalanced to balanced stage at the output. The circuitry in the middle is unbalanced. That is not a particular disadvantage, because the vast majority of the benefit is in the balanced cabling.

 

IMO unless you’re balanced throughout there’s no benefit to running balanced cables vs. single ended.

 

Not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying that you need fully balanced circuitry inside the box, rather than bal2unbal, single ended inside, the unbal2bal on the output? Or that the entire system ought to be balanced, rather than just one component?

 

Sorry, I was referring primarily to the cables and connections. If there is an unbalanced (single ended, RCA) connection at the turntable (which there is nothing wrong with at all, the vast majority of turntables are configured this way), I see no benefit of going into a phono stage with an unbalanced connection/cable and out to preamp or integrated with a balanced one. Just my opinion mind you.

 

Balanced audio is always the better way to go than unbalanced RCA crap.

 

a) That statement is too general to be true.
b) Singled Ended RCA cables/connections in and of themselves are not crap. Sure, there can be some crappy examples but the same is true with balanced.
c) I give a lot more credence to what people have to say about equipment and gear when they disclose theirs in their profile.

 

Then you are leading yourself towards bias because of logical fallacies, either a false appeal to authority (ownership does not equal expertise) or appeal to celebrity (that coveted gear ownership and money makes someone well-informed).

If someone lists their exotic jade jewel stone cartridge with rainforest hardwood shim, and pure silver voice coil speakers, does that make them an authority or a fool?

Plus some of us have a different problem. What car should Jay Leno put in his automobile profile?

Anyway, balanced connections have benefits that are cumulative. If we only cared about the lowest common denominator, we wouldn't need cabling any quieter than the crackle and rumble of an LP.

 

Perhaps not expertise but at least real experience.

Doesn't really matter, pick one. And it's easy enough to list at least two systems.

 

In general a single ended phono cable is configured using balanced cable. The cartridge + and - goes via the phono plug to the input and input ground (the local analog circuit ground) at the phono stage. The arm ground is tied to a wire with (generally) a spade at the end. The cable shields are not connected to anything at the arm end. Instead at the phono end they are broken out and both connected to spades. The arm ground and the two shields are tied to the phono stage casework ground (generally an uninsulated terminal on the rear panel). For electrical safety, the phono stage casework has to be tied to safety ground (ie the wall socket ground).

That deals with the cartridge to phono stage wiring. Now what happens at the output of the phono stage when it connects to the pre or integrated amp? The amp likewise has to have a safety grounded case (unless the casework it is double-insulated that is). And that is precisely why a single ended chain is prone to hum (via hum loops) or RFI.

Having a balanced output from the phono stage at least gives the possibility of hum-free connections.

By the way, you don't even need a formal circuit to convert unbalanced to balanced at the output. Every line level output has a series resistor, usually in the range 220 ohms to 1k ohm. This is to make sure that the output stays stable and doesn't oscillate when connected to the cable capacitance. Suppose for sake of argument that is 470 ohms. Connect that regular unbalanced output to pin 2 of the balanced connector. Take pin 3 to analog ground via the same resistor value - 470 ohms in this case. And of course tie pin 1 directly to the chassis. This arrangement is (unfairly) called pseudo-balanced. However it has all the noise free attributes of a fully balanced drive, and also neatly sidesteps ground loops.

 

Lets skip all the dumb crap that's going on in this thread and give a few options like you asked.

These are a bit over your budget but are excellent and can be ordered in single ended or XLR. You can also order them as phono cables as well. Spirit Interconnects — American Series - Triode Wire Labs

Also have a look here. They make excellent phono cables. I use to use the Silver Eclipse 7 phono cables but now use the Platnium 7. The Solistice 7 or perhaps the Eclipse will work for you. And you have your choice of XLR or single ended.

Tonearm Cables – Wireworld Cable Technology Store

And here is the interconnects as well. They also have a choice for you in XLR or single ended.

Audio Interconnects – Wireworld Cable Technology Store

I find that cables...good cable, do improve the quality of the notes coming from the stereo. Lots of guys are not satisfied with the sound of their stereo's and buy new gear when all they needed to do was spend good money on cables for the expensive amp or speakers they purchased. Why cheap out on cables when you spent a fortune on the amp/speakers? makes no sense, unless one cant hear to begin with.

No one can tell you how much to pay for your personal enjoyment you get from listening to your rig. If a person doesn't want to pay, he has that right.....if a person thinks his personal enjoyment from what he hears is worth the price paid, then he has the right to pay it. No one should tell a person what he can and can't hear. We have our own ears and money. We can do with it what we wish.

 

That would depend heavily on the configuration of the Phono Preamp, wouldn't it?

Certain Phono Preamps actually have the option of outputting a true balanced signal. Or, at least they claim to. I'm no expert in anything but fishing.