Cambridge Audio 752BD Universal Player review or, "how Universal players should be done"

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Brother_Rael, Dec 9, 2014.

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  1. gloomrider

    gloomrider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA, USA
    S/PDIF does not support the high bit rate needed to send a DSD stream. It's not that DSD over S/PDIF is prohibited, it's simply not supported.
     
  2. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Ok Bill, You've convinced me, I'll now admit that you ARE an oppo Troll! :yikes:
    And since you've come out of the closet, I AM also going to come out of the closet and declare myself
    a future Marantz Troll! :hugs:
    LOL....... I didn't mean any offense-really. But it IS fact that out of the 4-9 threads I've started over the past 6 years or however long I've been here, it never failed......within 1/2 a page BANG-there is the oppo patrol taking over my thread with oppo this oppo that, it gets annoying really quick, especially when I was asking about a completely different player.

    Now the way you describe oppo's customer support is a lot like the way I feel about the Bose company.....:hide:
    But they get crucified almost any time someone brings them up. But your view's and mine about these two companies are not too far apart.

    Now, I just want to clarify for you my position on Universal players.
    The first, most important Point is that my original, and still Primary reason for a Universal Player is for Playing SACD's and DVD-A discs. Video is not important to me, I don't like Home theater-I am a Stereo NutBag from way back, so being that Audio is my main thing here........I discovered years ago, through using multiple UP's by different company's, that when utilized for audio, they failed ergonomically. I'll say it again, If I have to hook up a TV to play a cd then that machine is crap for my purposes, as the player is in my Stereo Rack and NOT in my video setup.
    I've said it before that from what I know, the Oppo players are stellar for what they do. Excellent for you who have and like them. For my Audio purposes, I don't need their overkill, and I've read at least a dozen 'User' reviews that pitted the Oppo's with the Marantz UD machines "FOR AUDIO" purposes they chose the Marantz for better sound quality on redbook Cd's and SACD's. And the 5007 IS as easy to use as a regular cd player-no monitor/tv needed. The front display comes on just like a cd player when I put a cd or sacd in-it loads hella quick and plays without any noise from the transport. I've NEVER had this excellent experience with any other U.P. :goodie:

    So, again, if I offended, I'm very sorry, don't mean to. I like the discussion.
    the beave
     
  3. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I'm a bit confused isn't an Onkyo machine you have? As for Marantz the op stated he hated his Marantz. I too simply have a stereo set up and bought the Oppo for all the reasons you state. It's my opinion and it is there to be challenged but when you are looking at universal players then people with pretty high end systems are using the Oppo more so than any other universal player. From what I can see people are buying this player from the range where it is the most expensive component in their system to the range where it is the least expensive component. That type of information tells you something.

    It's not a case of flag waving or mindless support I repeat the reality is from people, the serious audio press and indeed dealers who do not stock the Oppo is that it is the machine to beat in that price range. It's not the only machine , it's not perfect but again the reality is it is so good at so many things that's why there is the praise there is.
     
  4. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Ayre is the answer for those looking for a universal audio player. I don't know how much below SRP one might expect to pay, but it won't come down close to the Oppo. Maybe there's another SACD/universal out there which easily bests the Oppo in sound quality but at a closer price point? Does Sony offer their ES line which can be modded? That would be another option.
     
  5. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    The serious or even "pretty serious" hi-end system will have a modded Oppo at the very least though, right? The Oppo love is just a bit extreme. It's not as if the sound quality is putting Ayre out of business. You won't find those looking at Playback Designs or even PS Audio's new DAC scrapping their plans for an Oppo.

    Perspective.
     
  6. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I had Ayre CX-7 for nearly 10 years so I love Ayre however the universal player was serious cash and it's getting on a bit now. The Oppo I would imagine is not at the playback level of the Ayre but it does bring other attributes to the table.
     
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  7. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Again comments are getting taken out of context personally I wouldn't look at the mods on the Oppo here in the UK you are looking at twice the original cost of the Oppo to get the state of the art upgrade-it's not the way I would approach upgrading. My genuine interest is in the next digital step for someone like me who wants to go to the next level but in a way that retains most of the features I currently have.
    Let's be clear here if money was no consideration then the Oppo wouldn't be in my system. As it is this year has seen me upgrade my system quite a bit-I may arguably have an uneven split now between the components in my system but it's that step in the digital chain I look at and find hard to know where to go next-if I were spending and I'm not however I would say the Oppo is the least likely component to stay in my system-my amp and speakers I consider the end of that journey for me.

    You have a serious system-out of pure curiosity have you heard the Oppo 105 in your system?
     
  8. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Serious to some, a waste to a few, just getting started for others.

    I'd just as likely audition an Oppo 105 as I would a dCS Vivaldi- neither is ever gonna find a spot on my rack.

    I do wonder if there is a hole in the hi-fi market for SACD players which fall just short of Ayre sound quality, but retail for $2,500 or so. Ideally, there would be more and more competition to put pressure on the likes of Esoteric.
     
  9. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I think there's a real gap to be honest for both the functionality of the new digital age and having a great disc spinner personally I don't stream but I listen to Hi-Res downloads via a HD on my Oppo as well as SACD and Blu Ray Audios......the extra factor for me is that the Oppo keeps the family happy with movies and Netflix etc.

    If I were to go to a stand alone machine for music then I'm thinking it's going to be expensive and will it do everything I want it to?
     
    jh901 likes this.
  10. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I bought a used flagship Denon universal player, the DVD-A1UDCI, and the SACD sound just blew me away. Same proprietary drive and DACs and 32-bit processing on this unit as on the Denon DCD-A100 that I also have and love the sound of, but surprisingly better sound overall. Blu-ray and DVD sound and picture on this machine are astonishingly good as well. I haven't directly compared this to an Oppo but I'm not really an Oppo fan, haven't like those I've heard and I'm confident I would prefer this machine's output by a significant margin if they were side by side. I strongly prefer the sound of this to others I've had including the Sony 5400 and the Arcam FMJ-C37 I still have in my closet. This machine may be hard to justify at its launch price of 6000, or the next street price of 4500, but I got it barely used at all for 1500 and it's a 45 pound bargain. Excellent design, build and playback.

    http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-dvd-a1udci-universal-blu-ray-player

    From this review:

    However, over its analog audio outputs, the Denon is far more singular. It smashes the sound quality of the OPPO and every other BD player I’ve yet heard by a degree that’s nothing short of astonishing. Saying it’s night and day is only the beginning. The OPPO’s analog audio playback is very respectable for a $500 player, but the Denon goes much, much farther. When you listen to CDs on these two players, you’ll never guess they were playing the same format. On the Denon, Neil Young’s Live at Massey Hall CD wasn’t merely good playback; it felt like a live performance. The size of the venue and the energy of the audience were both evident and palpable. The guitar sounds weren’t merely strings anymore. I could hear the body of the instrument and Young’s hand-slapping interaction with it to an uncanny degree, and it was clearly apparent when he moved closer to or farther from the microphone. These details sound small, but they add up to an experience that’s entirely different in total. On the Denon, the jump from CDs to SACDs expanded as well. The difference in clarity and detail when the higher-resolution discs were spinning wasn’t just noticeable, it was dramatic.

    Going further, and perhaps more surprising, I preferred the Denon’s analog output’s sound on both CDs and audio-oriented Blu-ray Discs over a digital connection from that same player to Anthem’s D2v surround processor, which retails for $7,500. The Anthem is no slouch at all. The Denon is that good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    Brother_Rael likes this.
  11. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member Thread Starter

    Yes. Perspective. An owner's pride is nice. But at the expense of objectivity, not so much.
     
  12. Jack Flannery

    Jack Flannery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    So I looked online and the DVD-A1UDCI is $4500 being compared to an Oppo that has been discontinued. Well, it damn well better outperform it or there are scads of Denon customers out there that got hosed. Sounds like a heck of a player but...
     
  13. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Aint that the truth :) Ironic doesn't cover it....this quote from Lonson I 'm confident I would prefer this machine's output by a significant margin if they were side by side even though he hasn't done the comparison and from yourself.... I wouldn't change to the Oppo - not big enough a difference when again you haven't actually heard the machine.
    Of course that comparison in the review isn't against the 105.........
     
  14. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Didn't say it was. It's an excellent machine. Built way better than Oppos, and sounds amazing.
     
  15. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    It looks a really well built machine and again you've got an absolute bargain-it's at the other end of the scale in price though-retail nearly three times the price of the Oppo? The problem is using phrases like significant margin that concerns me when in reality you haven't done the comparison and indeed when the Denon was released a good 3 years or so before the 105 .

    But that's a machine especially at that price I'd like to hear.
     
  16. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    There is no room for "owner's pride" when money gets real, which is relative. I'm at my max and any objective, informed audiophile will appreciate the achievement within the grand context of what is possible for two channel at a given price range. I have no attachment to my gear beyond the pleasure it gives me today. Brand loyalty in hi end means nothing if the ownership or engineering leadership changes. I spend hours listening in the sweet spot and I buy carefully selected CDs near daily.

    Oppo has some loyalists and no doubt they earned it, but for two channel I've not come across any info which leads me to believe that a more focused unit won't be better. That said, we all don't have the same goals.

    If I were buying an entry level then I'd want the option to upgrade with proven mods. Else, I'd want a player which holds value so that I could easily sell. I'd want to hear Cambridge, Marantz/Denon and Oppo, etc too.
     
  17. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    You know scads spelled sideways is SACD'S.
    just saying
    the beave
     
  18. BSC

    BSC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    I agree with a lot of that totally and it's a learning curve-I've learned more about matching amps and speakers this year than I did over a 17 year period previously because I got to hear quite a few different amps in my set up.

    However digital right now is tricky, I want to hear hi-res downloads, CD's, SACD's and Blu Ray audio so invariably enjoying all that at the level the Oppo provides then you want to surpass that. There's absolutely no doubt other players will beat the Oppo none whatsoever but it's the scale of improvement and versatility vs cost that is the issue for me. Ther will be solutions no doubt.

    At this stage-amp and speakers are keepers for me....the Oppo will be replaced at some stage.
     
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  19. rbbert

    rbbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Reno, NV, USA
    Apparently there is a mod for the Oppo 103 (replacing the digital out board) which will output stereo DSD (as well as PCM up to 24/912) to coax or optical (not Toslink), allowing it to be a universal transport (a la MSB but at a much lower price) to the DSD capable DAC of your choice (some do accept DSD this way). If you're intersted it's apparently discussed in some PS Audio discussion forums. Sorry I don't have a link handy.
     
  20. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Digital is tricky. Such a shame that PS Audio didn't introduce an SACD capable unit with their new FPGA DAC, for example. More generally, DACs are so misunderstood. The off the shelf chip (in traditional DACs) isn't anywhere near as critical as how it (or they) is implemented. The word clock has an impact. The analog output design is huge. Perhaps more than anything which impacts the analog signal which is passed on to the next component is the unit's power supply design. It's a shame that oversimplification has permeated DAC discussion.
     
  21. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I have heard the 105 in my system a year prior to receiving this unit, I didn't do a direct comparison but I know by what significant margin I prefer the Denon. The Redbook from the Denon seems near the calibre of my PS Audio PWD Mk II, the Oppo does not.
     
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  22. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    All these are reasons why I think the Denon is such a great player. Word clock has been carefully addressed, the chassis is really well-designed for isolation from mechanical influences, the power supply is carefully designed, the analog output is carefully designed. The same can be true of players as DACs.

    I love SACD but I have sixty times more CDs at best so a machine that makes the very best of Redbook is my primary need and want. I have that in the DirectStream, and I have high-resolution covered in the Denon, and I have my Rega/Decware phono system which gives amazing sound. I'm lucky, I'm fixed.
     
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  23. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    But. . . what?

    I was just answering Josh's query about a universal player that plays SACD really well. I've gone through ownership of five SACD players and checked out several others through borrowing or a visit to my place including a 105 before this one became the clear leader and settled into the spot in my system to provide video and high-resolution playback. Ended the hunt for me, just as the Cambridge seems to have ended the hunt for Brother. Sometimes it's good to rest after the hunt and enjoy the feast.
     
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  24. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    It seems you haven't heard the Oppo 105 by your above remarks. Also your non response when I asked you several times if you have had the 105 in your system explains everything ;). I find it odd that you dismiss the SQ of the Oppo unless mods are done but it seems you've never even heard a stock 105. I would think one would want to hear a player in it's stock form before deciding to have mods done.

    Bill
     
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  25. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Right. LOL. I'm going to prove right here and now that entry level DACs are actually entry level to someone who isn't interested in serious hi end.

    I haven't heard an MPS-5 in my system either so I'll just assume that I've got a world beater bargain!! ($7 grand versus $17 grand). Damn, my system just got so much better. Heck, I'm gonna go Vivaldi on everyone. Suckers.
     
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