Cameo Parkway

There are persistant rumors that ABKCO is going to announce the release of the CP Catalog on Hybrid SACD, ala the Stones.

Somehow I have a feeling that this time, its true. After all, if they wait any longer, the market will have passed them...the fans will be in their 70s!!


And yes, the tapes DO all exist. For years, they were stored at Sigma Sound, in Philly. There are pix floating around of the tape boxes with
"B Rydell" and "orlons" plainly visible.

I do not believe that they are still there tho, I believe they were all recalled by ABKCO for a tape inventory (boy, I wish I could have done that), possibly for this release.


All I can say is, its about time. Sure Hope its true.

 

Yes!, I wonder if we'll get any STEREO? Hope so..Better yet, STEREO/MONO 2 Fers! I can dream can't I....

 

Michael, thats the down side. Any CP Cds will be the mono versions of the hits.

The problem is how they were recorded in the first place. From 1958 Up to 1962 , the backing tracks were made in the Cp office by Dave Appel and his band.

Then, the tape was brought over to Reco-Art studio in Philly, played back on a mono machine, and the singer would sing to the backing track, with everything being mixed "live" onto a second machine, in mono.

A fellow by the name of Emil Korson did most of the CP mixing and he was a Mono fanatic.

So, you have two tapes, one the complete mono mix, the other, just the backing. There is no "Two track " tape from which to make a stereo CD.

I highly doubt that ABKCO is going to spend all the money to "sync" the two tapes together to come up with a stereo mix. It wouldnt sound anything like the 45s. Too many people would complain.

So, we are stuck with mono on 95% of the CP catalog. Some things "Slow Twisting" ARE in true stereo, but very few.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but thats the real deal

 

Well, not completely, Mikey. Most of the early stuff and probably all the Dovells and Orlons will be mono, but C/P did record some true stereo material that works just fine, including: quite a bit of Chubby Checker, including "Slow Twistin'," "Limbo Rock" and most of the 1963/early '64 45's; a duet album he did with Dee Dee Sharp; a Carroll Brothers Lp(but not their only hit); the Bobby Rydell GREAT ONES Lp with "That Old Black Magic"; many of the Tymes' recordings, which we've discussed before. This, in addition to: several full Checker Lp's including TWISTIN' 'ROUND THE WORLD, LIMBO ROCK and THE FOLK ALBUM; DOWN TO EARTH; GREAT ONES; and of course some later '67/'68 material from Bunny Sigler and the Ohio Express. It's true that the chief enginner for C/P, in the early years, was a mono fantatic of sorts; even so, crude 2-tracks might remain for some things. Yet it seems as if C/P recorded and released in stereo if they felt they had a shot at older buyers: remember, they also released a series of 35mm stereo 'lounge' albums directly aimed at the adult audience. You have the time frame about mono-only about right, though I'd make it all-mono from 1957-early '62; what we don't know is if anything else unreleased was made in stereo from that point forward. Presumably, they felt Checker's "Twist" appeal cut across the board, so some of his Lp's were released in stereo. I do share your pessimism, however, insofar as it's most likely Abkco will go with the mono mixes, but we will have to wait on that. Since they redid the later Sam Cooke catalog and offered some rare stereo Stones, no reason to think they might not put some of the already-mixed stereo out as well.

Hope you're right they're going to put out anything official; as you say, they can't wait forever. Good idea to exploit the catalog while there are still fans like us around to care.

ED

 

No bubble to burst...I've heard some stereo boots..not bad.

 

Ed--- Agreed. After 1962, I think that more studios in Philly went 3 and 4 track, so CP definetly did some of their catalog that way, as the later Chubby Checker Lps in stereo indicate.

I'm with you, I hope that ABKCO will give us some stereo surprises, if possible. What I wouldnt give to hear "Forget Him" in true stereo!!!

 

While I wouldn't be surprised if ABKCO issues some C/P soon, I have to wonder if it would be on hybrid SACDs or not. I kind of think that was just something special for the Stones, but I guess you never know.

As far as stereo/mono goes, I don't think it's out of the question to assume that ABKCO would use true stereo where it existed. They gave us plenty (although not enough) of early Stones in stereo, and their Sam Cooke disc is all stereo, and all remixed.

 

I dont know Luke..........but I'm hopeful that ABKCO is trying to push the hi Res formats. After all, they could have released the Stones on regular Redbook. and they probably would have sold just as much.

 

If this project sees the light of day, I just hope they have the sense not to re-channel any mono recordings into "fake" reprocessed stereo. That was all the rage a couple of decades ago, but "most" now have the sense not to do it...

 

Which they *did* do overseas!

 

The SACD layer is a great bonus. I'd still be happy with only the RedBook layer.

 

Question Mark and the Mysterians - I WANT THAT NOW!!!! (And there's lotsa Q-Mark stereo save for 96 Tears - sniff...)

 

Not very likely. When Abkco took control of that catalog way back when, they put out a few Lp comps and quite a few reissue 45's, all in mono. Even C/P didn't make a habit of rechanneling; yes, a few stereo Lp's have rechanneled cuts(FOR TEEN TWISTERS ONLY; the entirety of Rydell's FORGET HIM)but, by and large, the regular C/P releases tended toward mono pressings alone; they did a lot more rechanneling on their Wyncote subsidiary than they ever did on C/P. I'm not worried about rechanneling; as for the stereo, we'll just have to wait and hear, but it could go either way, and neither would surprise me. One thing they could do is concoct a hits-laden box set and put that in mono, using the stereo for individual artist releases. That would make some sense, and what effort was put into the Stones SACDs suggests they won't just throw any old thing together.

I'd still like to see a comprehensive Cooke singles set in mono, but that's for another year, most likely.

ED

 

Oh yea!

 

Well, actually, it's been out: Rudy Martinez issued that overseas, at least that's what his Merlin CD suggests. That's from the masters, with stereo for the Lp cuts and mono for the earlier recordings(like the great title track)made before C/P signed the band. Since the mono cuts aren't rechanneled as they were on the Cameo Lp, safe to say somebody's got the masters(it is most definitely NOT a needledrop).
I don't know what the rights situation is on that; it's been suggested that's a 'grey area' CD, but that's Martinez on the cover, the recordings are the originals, not remakes or live stuff, so who knows...

ED

 

Ed...so Martinez simply licensed the stuff to CP? Was it issued on another label before CP?

 

I'm not sure what the situation is, except that "96 Tears" first came out regionally on the very small Pa-Go-Go label(and that one, mint, must go for four figures by now ). The first batch of recordings the group made before signing with C/P are the mono tracks from the album, including "I Need Somebody," the follow-up 45. All I know is the legit album master turned up overseas, Rudy's face is on it, and it's from tape. Nice, flat sound, too, I might add, with some hiss. I assumed C/P owned it, but then again I'm not sure about the Bob Seger situation, either. You'd expect C/P had the rights to both; Abkco did put out "96 Tears" on a reissue 45.

Spicy question, innit? If Abkco has the rights and they're serious about the C/P catalog, we'll find out soon enough. But seeing as "96 Tears" isn't exactly common in the digital domain, I'd guess Abkco owns the masters but somebody put out the album anyway, legit or not. More than a few 'grey area' discs have master quality sound; where they're getting this stuff from is anybody's guess.

ED

 

Well, if ABKCO DOES do the Cp catalog, you can bet your booties that "96 tears" will be on it.

What this sounds like to me is that Martinez has the first gen masters and he provided copies to CP when they picked up the rights. That may explain why that overseas boot sounds like came from a master tape, it probably did.

 

Ed,
The MERLIN CD of Question Mark and The Mysterians has been out for quite a while. I believe there were 2 different CD releases? I have 96 Tears-Question Mark And The Mysterians-MERLIN-003...12 tracks no bonus tracks. Wasn't there another release with bonus tracks on the CamPark boot label? If so, which is true to the Master Tapes? The MERLIN was released first. I was always curious about the CamPark CD release but never picked it up. Am I missing something?

 

Put it this way: the Merlin, by default, is the better of the two. It's the original 96 Tears Lp, except repackaged. The Cam-Park is probably a needle-drop unless the wise guys who do these sort of boots used the Merlin CD for reference. Even if they did, they had to lift the subsequent singles off of vinyl, in any case. I like those Liberty Bell/Cam-Park boots for what they are, but at times they're not that hot. Often too bright, not enough bottom, and some of these--also on the Bow label, among others--have audible surface noise, though none I've picked up are that noisy.
You're not missing much if you don't have the Cam-Park ?; just a few later 45's. I'm sure it's kicking around here somewhere, but as with everything else in my CD collection, in such total disarray it's going to take a while to straighten everything out. I'm curious myself as to how many 'grey area'
discs I've accumulated since the late '80s; too many, probably. And I'd own none if the legit stuff had been issued. Well, it may happen yet....

ED

 

I know what you mean, Ed, the boot can only be as good as the source.

And Cameo Parkway didnt win any awards for super sounding vinyl.

 

I'm happy with the sound of The Merlin Cee Dee! and it's on a Silver Cee Dee to boot!

 

That it is, and I'm amazed more boots aren't on CD-Rs(though enough are).
Just more proof that the legit CD manufacturing plants really don't care who wants discs pressed; like any other business, if you put the money up and have the goods, despite the risk of prosecution for aiding and abetting, they'll press 'em up. Many years ago, when I found that Merlin CD, I assumed I was going to get another needledrop, maybe just the convenience of not having to pull my Cameo Lp out of mothballs for still another listen(an exceptional album, as you know ). That it sounds as good as it does was a shock; even more shocking was the mono, no rechanneling, so separate tapes were used, not the stereo Lp master itself. Well, as they say, for $7 + tax, do not look a gift horse in the mouth--be thankful you were there on the right day and found it. One of my favorite CDs.

ED

 

Nice! I paid much more than $7... Worth every penny! Just gave it a spin...I forgot how good it was!

 

Yeah, I've got the Liberty Bell stuff, too. So now, if the legit stuff does get issued then YEEE HAH! - we get to buy it all over again.

Does this sound familiar to anyone???