Can 7 1/2 ips recordings be considered hi-fi?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Damián, Jul 10, 2004.

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  1. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame Thread Starter

    Location:
    Spain now
    Yes I understand the answers to that question are all over the place- it depends a lot on the machine, tape, program material, etc.

    But from the most general point of view possible, are 7 1/2 ips recordings considered to be, so to speak, the 'onset' of high fidelity in the reel-to-reel format?

    Part of the reason I'm asking is because fooling around with a late-60s machine a friend left home, I taped a song or two off a CD and was rather surprised at the sound- I thought it would be a lot muddier than what I heard, for one.

    I'd love to read any and all opinions on this.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Some of the best sounding oldies were recorded at that speed. You'd be surprised.
     
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  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Well, you could make a pretty good sounding cassette with a good machine and good tape at 1 7/8 ips - why not then at 7 1/2? That's not to say that 15 or 30 ips wouldn't be better, but done well it should sound good. Just ask Bob Lovely.

    I'd guess that the biggest problems with the pre-recorded reels not sounding as they should would be because of poor quality duplication and/or the quality (or lack thereof) of the tape used when they were manufactured. The dupe master used to make the tapes from would likely be generationed down, and that copy may or may not have been carefully made. Just like the problems that often plagued the sound on pre-recorded cassettes and (yes) 8-tracks.
     
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  4. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame Thread Starter

    Location:
    Spain now
    Calling Dr. Lovely.. :D. Bob, do you work at 7 1/2? I would've thought 15 ips, for some reason.
     
  5. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I have been re-introducing myself with 7 1/2" reels, converting some to 24/96 DVD-As, and the sound is pretty astounding, some borderline "stunning"! :D
     
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  6. Joe Nino-Hernes

    Joe Nino-Hernes Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Go to my website, www.srctape.com then click on project status, and then click on St Louie blues. I recorded this live, outdoors on my old Tascam recorder a few years ago. It came out great. It was recorded at 7 1/2. I will never use 7 1/2 again (I have an Ampex ATR now that runs at 15 and 30ips), but I was forced to in this situation, to avoid running off the tape. Steve has heard this track (on a disk I sent him) and I am sure that he will agree that it is indeed HI FI.

    I kept the recording path very simple. Three mics, into a simple mixer, and then into my Tascam 32. I think the recordings came out very well.
     
  7. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Some of the early 7.5ips 2-track pre-recorded reels are absolutely stunning sounding. I have 4-track 7.5ips pre-recorded reels that are also quite good sounding. I have some one-off dubs from master reels at 7.5ips 2-tracks that sound better than the commercial CDs of the same title...

    And I have some 7.5ips pre-recorded reels that sound like absolute garbage. This could happen when either the duplicating master was crap, or else the duplicating machine was out of alignment, or the duplication was done at too high a speed or...(many other potential problems).

    But to answer your question: Yes, emphatically, yes, a carefully created 7.5ips reel-to-reel is surely of audiophile quality...

    Kwad
     
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  8. Joe Nino-Hernes

    Joe Nino-Hernes Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I agree. Many pre recorded tapes were high speed duplicated, which ruined the high end. However, I have quite a few of early tapes that were 1:1 duplicated, that sound great!
     
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  9. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Right!!! Some of the 7 1/2 IPS Commercial Tapes sounded good, some Ok, some terrible. Your best bet there is to find some from the mid to late 50s...before the Bin Master system was created. I had, many years ago, a Johnny Mathis reel from around 1959 and I'm telling that thing sounded astounding. Two track stereo......Wish I still had that.
     
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  10. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame Thread Starter

    Location:
    Spain now
    boy, you guys are getting me all built up! Now that I've got a machine running I'll pick up just about anything I see wound around a reel next time I go thriftin'!

    :)
     
  11. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I think one critical factor in 7.5 ips reels sounding good is how wide the track is on the tape. Back when studios were recording full-track mono on quarter-inch tape they made some magnificent recordings, and some two-track tapes were made on half-inch. By the 1960s a lot of tracks were half that width but still stand up today, such as the Beatles' recordings on four-track half-inch tape. In the 1970s it seems everybody was using narrow tracks (4 tracks per quarter-inch), and the difference is obvious.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Lord H, the Beatles recorded on ONE-INCH four-track tape. No studio in the USA used a 1/2" tape to record anything but three or four track until the 1970's.

    You point is correct though; a full track or two-track tape at 7 1/2 ips will sound great. Four-track recording at that speed is less great but still good if you have the right machine, the right tape and record it carefully.
     
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  13. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame Thread Starter

    Location:
    Spain now
    Joe, this sounds very, very, very good. It does have (for lack of a better term) an 'extra heaviness' I'm not used to hearing on recordings.. but that might not have anything to do with being recorded at 7 1/2. The stand-up bass and vocals sound beautiful.

    One thing though, I doubt I'll get to record something as properly in a million years.
     
  14. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont


    A whole quarter-inch of tape per track; no wonder they still sound great(the Beatles recordings that is).

    Evan
     
  15. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    My real name is Eric. I think.
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Put your first name in your signature line and we will know for next time.
     
  17. ubsman

    ubsman Active Member

    Location:
    Utah
    It wouldn't be a quarter-inch. A good amount of blank space is left between the tracks.
     
  18. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    Hope this isn't too much of a thread crap, but you're right: the quality of those mass-duplicated reels is all over the place. Maybe it's my ears, but I had bought quite a few A&Ms, a few Verves, a few RCAs, a couple of Columbias, one Capitol, one Fantasy, a few others here and there, and while some sound "good", I can't say they wowed me enough to want to toss away all of my vinyl copies. Many were duplicated by Ampex in Elk Grove Village...quality is all over the map, even from this same facility. The A&Ms I have are uniformly mediocre at best; the vinyl smokes 'em all IMHO. (And I've bought sealed reels and used ones as well, from many different sources.) The Verves sound pretty darned good. The Fantasy is a small notch below the Verves. I'd love to hear some of those early RCA reels. :)

    On the same deck, though, I can record onto a 20 year old reel of Maxell UD35-90 at 7½ ips and, y'know, it sounds pretty darned good. It's fun to make my own compilations on the ol' Teac. :) I agree that 7½ ips can sound good, but so far I've only heard really good sound when I've recorded something myself. I don't go out of my way to buy a mass-duplicated reel anymore. If it were something unique like quad (and I were equipped to play it), you bet I'd buy it. And I'll also buy a reel if I've searched for vinyl or CD and have never located the album I'm looking for.

    I may upgrade to a deck that also does 15ips. Not a priority, but I just think it's a cool format to record and play music on. It also impresses friends and relatives to watch those reels revolving. Mesmerizing... ;)
     
  19. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    The useful things you can learn in this forum just boggle the mind.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    There ya go!

    Thanks!
     
  21. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Well the Beats "The Capital Versions" sure sound great! They are mastered from Ampex 7.5 Reels:)
     
  22. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    Yes, I work at 7.5ips because that is the speed I have. With "pro" quality tape - the sound is quite "hifi". That being said, my goal is to work at 15ips in the future. Use good tape, record from good sources and 7.5 can sound quite nice...

    Bob :)
     
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  23. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame Thread Starter

    Location:
    Spain now
    Wow.. you BET this is hi-fi. I found a fresh roll of tape my friend left with the machine (NOS, that is- fresh as in 'I cracked the 30-year-old seal myself'). I taped some more stuff off CDs (both 'good' and 'bad' -hypercompressed new stuff being 'bad'), paying more attention to levels this time- the previous tries hit the tape a bit too hot.

    A-ma-zing. There's just no noise from the machine or tape, just.. sound. And nothing's lost- the cymbals sizzle, the bass absolutely pumps (that being good, in this case), .. wow.

    I see a lot more taping in my future :D.
     
  24. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    Sure does! Even with an old blank tape and my humble little Teac, I still like the way it sounds. :) I mainly wanted the deck to play back the few rare reels I own, or a few I'd bought just for fun. Ditto the 8-track deck.
     
  25. Joe Nino-Hernes

    Joe Nino-Hernes Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Thanks for listining. The heaviness is what I like about the type of tape I use, Emtec 911. It is very fat sounding. Also, the head bump (where the record heads have increaced resopnse) on the Tascam running at 7 1/2ips is around 90-150 hz, and that contributes to the added wamth and body that you hear. All of my recordings are very warm sounding, I love the sound of analog, and even when I mix and or master from digital sources, I dump to analog, to add some balls!
     
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