Can I augment current system with tubes on a budget?

Yes! One of the Pro-ject TubeBox phono preamps (the Phono TubeBox S, $399-$449) is a great choice) in between your Debut 1.5 and the Pioneer SX-750 will do the trick. Don’t plug the TubeBox into the Phono input on the Pioneer, obviously. Use the Aux input instead. The little TubeBox S is great and will provide all the tubey goodness you need to determine if you want to go further, e.g., adding a tube based integrated amp and demoting the SX-750 to tuner duties only.

 

I have found myself looking at Yaqin and Nobsound integrated amps the last couple of days. For $400-900 you can get a lot of machine. They seem to get good reviews as well, especially some of the Yaqin models. Tempting.

 

Used Musical Fidelity tube buffers can be found on eBay. They hold their resale value pretty well, so you wouldn't be out much should you decide to upgrade to "real" tube amplification or that tubes aren't for you.

 

Tubes on a budget? First step, get a bigger budget than $300. I'd just go balls deep and and find a vintage tube amp. If you really want to get at what is going on with tubes, a buffer stage or a $300 phonostage isn't really going to do it. Keep your eyes open and find a Fisher, Scott or Dynaco. You are in a good position to do so with your Klipsch speakers, 20 to 30 watts should fire them up nicely.

I know I'm a complete audiophile douche for saying this but bringing home something new with tubes and spending less than $1,000 (about) is a fools errand. Sure it will light up and look cool but it wont deliver what you're looking for. Even a phonostage. Sure the budgie or tube box is way better than the internal you were using but at the same price point the SS option is generally better.

The best budget option really is a restored Fisher 400. Without a case you are looking at $800, possibly less if you find a good deal or it has some cosmetic issues. Nothing but tubey goodness, in the phono stage, headphone, FM, amp and signal.

Look at it like this, if you spend $300 on a phonostage and decide you like it, you are going to continue down the path, spend more and that $300 will be a complete loss.

 

That’s interesting. When researching the pioneer sx750 purchase (I wanted a vintage receiver like I grew up with) and it was well reviewed and rated on misc. forums - even this one. I’ve always been happy with the sound, and think it bettered the ss Sony I was using. I never thought - or considered - it was my weak link.

 

This is good, sound advice. I love Fisher and have very fond memories of them. The reality is that budgets can be inflexible, and the idea that you have to spend at least 1,000 is a hard thing to accept for someone who loves/lives for music, appreciates good sound and has never in my life been able spend 1,000 on a purchase other than a home, vehicle, medical bills and a computer for work. Am I better off in your opinion, not buying what I can with what I have? I ask that honestly. Do I save and wait 3-4 years or enjoy what I can now while I’m here? I appreciate all of the great feedback in this thread, but boy is this a rabbit hole and money pit!

 

It's a fine receiver and way better than any Sony I've ever heard. I'd also say its way better than any modern SS receiver you can get for less than $1,000. Off topic I know but but lets not get crazy saying a Pioneer SX is a weak link. That with the Klipsch make a very good sounding system, I wouldn't use the internal phono on it but it's a very nice system. Not tube like however, I find the Pioneer to be clean vs. the warmth of a Sansui of the same era or tubes.

 

It’s not a weak link - not even close. As long as it has been tuned up sometime in the past ten years (flaky capacitors replaced, big filters caps replaced, bias/DC offset checked and adjusted, tuner checked and adjusted) the sound that thing produces is wonderful. Hundreds and hundreds of positive, highly approving comments by happy SX-750 and SX-series owners over the years can’t be offset by one unhappy owner. Consider that @SKATTERBRANE may have had the misfortune to be saddled with an SX-750 badly in need of a major tuneup or major overhaul.

 

Get a used one--then you can sell it at a later stage with little loss if you decide to go further down the tube road.

 

Yes, I'd wait until you get the budget. It's not like what you have is bad which makes improving on it a bit more expensive. If you are primarily listening to records, the phono stage is where I would work, I just would look at options other than tubes at that spot with a budget of $300.

 

And if you're not, tubes is not the way to go to get rid of digital nasties ...

 

Depending, I'd say tubes at the source can help with that but we would be talking way more than $300.

 

Vinyl to lossless digital files play ratio is 50/50 overall. I go in phases, and right now I’m spending more than 95% of my time spinning vinyl, which will change in the summer. My thought that tubes might be a good avenue for me was to push my vinyl experience in a more open, warm and lifelike tonal direction. Caveat is that I don’t understand how electronics work at all - what I know is what sounds and feels good, and to me it seems like magic and alchemy. I don’t understand the science to make good, technically coherent buying decisions. I also don’t think I’ll ever have the money to be able to own the gear I read about and dream of. Thanks again everyone - you’ve been very, very kind.

 

Very few of us will ever be able to afford the equipment we dream of. I will tell you my story is very similar to yours. I spent enough time on this forum hearing everyone go on about tubes that I couldn't take it anymore. I wanted to get it into my system as cheaply as possible. I started with a line stage pre amp and then a phonostage, both well over $1,000. In each case I'd day money well spent and I loved the improvement but it wasn't until I got tubes in the amplification and some efficient speakers that I got what I was looking for. That cost far less than $1000. In fact the amp and speakers I'm using today cost about 10% of the equipment it replaced.

It's not about the money but there is a minimum threshold that one needs to clear. I don't know how much a clean SX 750 is going for these days but I'd think it close to an even trade for a Fisher 400.

 

My experience is that you've got to go mostly tubes - but much better if you go all tubes. Tube buffers don't really do anything.

I've got a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp... And a First Watt J2 that sits in the cupboard. I will never go back to solid state.

 

I could not agree more! But, to knock it out of the park, recap the PS and use K40y-9 coupling caps. I sent a lot these upgrade Fisher 400/500/800s all over the world. Sounded so good sales was word of mouth, never advertised my services. Never had a complaint. Use RCA 12AX7 black plate in preamp, Brimar CV04004 box plate in phono and anything but GE power tubes. Phase splitters can use vintage Tung Sol 12AX7. Compare this to $10K tube systems, it wont lose. That was what I was told by a few customers. And, I did not perform it for the money! Just sent these 'whores' out to pleasure my customers.

 

Try a tube buffer. You'll hear a definite difference in warmth when used with mid-fi equipment, on the higher end stuff not so much. I had a Musical Fidelity X10-D buffer years ago that I used with an Onkyo CD player and it made a very nice change to the sound.

 

Here's the thing about tubes. A lot of people think you can drop a tube in an audio chain and get some sort of syrupy tube warmth. It's just not true. I don't know what syrupy tube warmth is and my system is all tubes. They don't really do that. What they do is expand your soundstage. They also focus your soundstage in that expanded state so where the instrument is played is far clearer. In terms of sound I don't much feel tubes are that different to solid state. They're not going to take the digital edge off.... If you want that I'll recommend you a $200 schiit mimby. Which is a R2R DAC. That will give you the analog sounds far more than dropping in a tube. A good tube setup offers you realism. Realism over any of the best solid state.. though the really good stuff maybe it's only slight. When I switch my first watt J2 into my system with my tube preamp... It sounds superb.. but I do lose that extra realism only tubes can bring you. I'm also of the opinion that a tube amp is preferable to a tube preamp if you can only have one. With tubes you have a massive soundstage. Where the walls in your room cease to matter. Where you're transported into the room the recording was made. To me that is the magic of tubes and it's something any audiophile should pursue.

 

I beg to differ. IFi/Abingdon Research is a highly reputable manufacturer. With many, many highly regarded products. . Admittedly, the iPhono2 seems to have had some teething pains, but this is hardly unheard of. I have an iPhono2 and it has been a pleasure. No issues at all. And I have an iTube2, which has been fantastic. Highly recommended. Lot’s of warmth with no loss of detail. Plus the ability to dial-in tube type and the soundstage has really made a positive difference.

 

Dozens of defective/dead units, members airing their absolutely terrible so-called customer service experiences, some members going through 3 defective units in a row sometimes, but yes, one guy with no issues means we should overlook the slew of problems detailed in the gigantic thread as well as other msg boards.

Makes sense.

 

I would consider adding one or both:

- Pro-Ject TubeBox S phono-pre $450 USD
Pro-Ject Audio Systems
- Schiit Saga Tube Pre-Amp $349 USD
Schiit Audio, Headphone amps and DACs made in USA.

 

Forget preamps buffers etc... if you want tube sound then IMO the last thing in your chain has to be tube... IE your power amp... or just run a tube integrated... run SS stuff first in the chain but its gotta be a tube power output stage if you want to try and get the tube sound properly.

 

These buffers caught my eye. Definitely not the typical tube buffer that you usually see. Made by a Canadian company called Space Tech Labs.

Space-Tech Laboratory - High-End Audio

They offer a bunch of different buffers, from ones using 2 x 12ax7 on the low end to buffers that use high output tubes (6L6, EL34, KT88, etc.) and rectifiers. They look like proper tube amps.

I'm tempted to try one after my CD player. Whether they'd make a difference or not I don't know, but tube CD players tend to sound different and they tend to use buffer stages (although some are real tube and not just a buffer stage). So I'm betting there would be a difference. Good chunk of change to spend on a buffer though when there isn't anything wrong with the way my systems sounds. Stupid hobby!

 

I would wait until you have more funds to spend. Then your choices will truly have an impact on your system.

Frank van Alstine has some products that will take you to the next level. Some of his designs are hybrid tube solid state in the preamp.

No connection business-wise to Frank. Just a happy customer for 40 years.

Audio by Van Alstine

 

I second the advice to first try a good tube phono preamp. But that's only a piece of the puzzle.

Most effective would be to get a tube integrated, but I don't believe you can find good tube integrateds below 700 bucks (used). So you'd have to save up.

A tube buffer doesn't get you the benefits of tube amplification. It's just a filter that will eventually get in the way of your listening pleasure, like putting the same sauce onto every meal you eat. Imo. Perhaps I just haven't heard the right design, though.