Can someone help with Wharfedale W60E speaker info? (specifications, history, etc.)

I have found several threads online at places like Audiokarma, but none of them have really given me the info I'm looking for (I've even checked Ebay frequently to see if the various sellers put any new info that I hadn't heard yet). I'm especially-interested to know what kind of magnets are used in the woofer, mids, etc. (alnico or ceramic), and other things like power handling, the years they were made, how they compared to the earlier models (and the other models from the same era), along with other general specifications info.
I bought a pair of W60E's in early '09 (I got them for $30!!), amd I'm very-happy with them. They have a warm, yet natural sound that gets better the more you turn up the volume, and they seem to thrive on the older, warmer amp/receivers from the early '70's. They also don't seem to need much wattage to sound good, which makes me wonder if they use alnico magnets for the drivers. I live on the first floor apartment (converted basement) of a 2-story house, and these speakers suit me quite well, although I do wish I had a bigger living room which would allow more speaker-positioning options (because I hear that they react very-well to corner placement). I DO find that raising them off the floor helps A LOT to achieve proper soundstaging in rooms with a lot of furniture and things. They can be a bit finicky, but with some crossover adjustments (mid and high crossover adjusters on the back of the cabinet), and a little experimenting with speaker placement and different amp choices, I'm really starting to get them dialed in quite nicely.

Anyway, can some of you tell me some more details about these things? I haven't found any new info in months.

 

Nothing?? Really?? Yikes. Do I really have to tear these things apart to find out what kind of magnets are used? I'd sure hate to have to do that - And I'm VERY-unskilled. I bet I'll mess them up good. I'm not what you'd call DIY-friendly.

 

Should be just a dozen or two screws to loosen, on the back I think..

No big deal.

I had a vintage Alnico Wharf-y W60.. So, it's probably Alnico. . . . But to be sure......

 

Just a quick 12-32 screws. No big deal.

I guess I'm afraid that I'll put it back together and it won't sound right, or there'll be a gasket that I won't be able to put back exactly the same way - that sort of thing. I am not what you would call "mechanically-inclined" (I can barely change a tire if I need to). That would be my brother's department - He can re-build the 400 block from a 1970 GTO Judge without reading a manual (Actually, he's doing that right now if I'm not mistaken). He can take anything mechanical and strip it down to the last bolt and screw, and then put it back together blindfolded. On the other hand, he can't pick up an electric guitar and start rippin' out "Mean Streets". I guess I've got that going for me.

I really was hoping to find out online though. I don't particularly want to have to take them apart because I'm too-busy listening to them - I really dig the sound of these speakers.

I know that Wharfedale used alnico magnets on the previous W60 models (without the "E"), but I have to wonder if they switched to ceramic in the late '60's the way the amp companies did. The W60E's have a warmth to them just like the W60's.

I'd really love to know what the deal is with the inverted surrounds on the woofers (not the mid-woofers).

 

"...... the way the amp companies did." (I was referring to the guitar amp companies like Fender)

By the way, Right now I'm listening to a great-sounding vinyl rip of "Moving Pictures" (PBTHAL). These speakers have great dynamics and a nice, warm sound, but they also have that "bounce" to them that I love so much (which is totally-necessary for listening to this album). They're great speakers if you want to "feel" the music.

"Don't 'tink...... Feeeeeeeeeeellllllll."

 

I have mine raised a good 23"-24" off the ground, and I think they would benefit from being raised a few more inches. I just have to figure out how, without having to buy a new set of tall speaker stands (Maybe I can find some used ones). I need to be able to raise them 2.5" to 3" off the ground - I think that's the point where they sound best. At that height, I get stronger, more-dynamic low-end response and a better soundstage. These are finicky speakers, but once you get them dialed in and positioned right, they sound great.

I regularly see these things sell on Ebay for $300-$500 for a pair in good shape, and even more for a really mint pair of them (I saw a minty pair that sold for around $600 earlier this year - I was REALLY-lucky to find mine so cheap [thanks to you guys alerting me that I should buy 'em] - That's a deal that I'll never see again). You could sell the raw speakers out of these things and still clear $300 easily, not to mention selling the crossovers.

 

Nothing?

Could I be the only SH forum member who owns a pair of these?

 

I guess I'll have to just open one of these things up and see for myself. Rolf's right. It really shouldn't be too-hard. I'm just a bit of a worry-wart when it comes to assembling/disassembling audio equipment of any kind because whenever I attempt to fix or modify anything electronic, it's always a catastrophe. I'm more of a creative person. Mechanicals are really not my forte.

 

Damn, I love these speakers. I don't care what some people say. Mid-Fi or not, these things rock. They're so natural-sounding - but warm (PERFECT for Allman Brothers). I just park myself in front of them .......... and veg-out.

I just sent a message to an Ebay seller who's auctioning a really-nice pair of them (Thanks, Darkmatter, for the heads-up) - He seems to have some knowledge of them, or at least he's gotten ahold of a spec sheet. Hopefully I can get some info from him. By the way, the little "Wharfedale" emblems are turned 90* - They should be short and wide, not tall and thin. I thought maybe one of the 12 and a half inch woofers was a replacement, but that may just be the light reflecting a little less because the cabinet is turned a bit. Either way, it's the right woofer so who cares. I love the way they look with the grills off. The seller did a great job with the pictures. And that's a good price for those, considering that I see the 12.5 inch woofers go for $125 for the pair. Same for the midranges and tweeters. I see pairs in similar condition go for $300-500. Anyway, check 'em out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Wharfed...fers?hash=item4837703564&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

 

Since there's not much info here in the archives, I might as well try and post what I've read:

The cabinets are sand-filled - including the back panel, which is very-heavy and apparently not that easy to remove. The cabinets are walnut, and the woofers, midranges, and tweeters are all isolated in their own sub-enclosure. The woofer is 12.5 inches, and the midrange is 5 inches. I still have more to learn about the tweeters (It's a great-sounding tweeter though). The woofer and midrange both have cast frames, as I think the tweeter does, but I'm not sure. These speaker cabinets are very-heavy for their size. The back panel has two controls for crossover adjustment, which comes in really handy for adjusting to the acoustics of different rooms.
I'd say they use alnico magnets in these drivers since the W60 does, but I want to be sure. I know that the power handling is on the low side, which suggests alnico, as does the warm sound. Plus they sound better the more you turn up the volume. Very-natural-sounding, and also very-dynamic. Great for drums. Especially-good for classic rock, jazz, and classical (and the Allman Brothers).

 

Pics.

Take a Look. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, Rolf. I love those tall, red alnico magnets (They painted them right? - I didn't rememver alnico being bright-red like that. Yours are in fantastic shape. They look great when they're not all dinged-up and the front grill panel isn't all torn-up.

It's funny - I've never seen cabinets built the way these things are. They're so-thick, and yet none of the seams are coming apart - Nothing's splitting open (I can't believe my grills are still intact). These seem like great cabinets to modify for use with other drivers. Cabinets were definitely Wharfedale's strong point. And even the back panel is sand-filled. Unfortunately, I learned that my W60E's are front-loaded. I have to remove the drivers to get to the crossover parts. Bummer.

I really need to find out if the low-bass is being filtered out from my midranges. I don't want to smoke them with too-much bass.

 

Rolf, those are OLD! They're really in awesome shape though. As good as any I've seen. The inside looks like new, although the inside of a well-built 40+ year-old speaker cabinet SHOULD look clean inside. I had this cabinet from a 1961 Fender Showman guitar amp. I actually saw it sitting inside someone's garbage can as I was driving home from work one day (The woman didn't have the amp that came with it -Too-bad). When I got it home, I cleaned and shined-up the outside as best I could, and then I took out the screws from the back panel, which revealed two mint-looking original 12" alnico drivers (I think they were old Jensens, but I can't remember - They'd be worth a fortune in that cabinet now) - The inside of the cabinet looked like it was made yesterday. And that was one seriously-great-sounding cab (I used to play a Marshall JCM900 amp head through it, and it sounded like Jeff Beck's amp). I sold it about 5 years after I bought it, and now I totally-regret it (At the time, it was a very-good price, but now I just miss the thing).

 

And does anyone know why Wharfedale went with those reverse-style surrounds on their larger woofers (like the 12", 12.5")? And yet they used those cloth-wool surrounds on their midrange drivers. Maybe the wool doesn't handle the slam as well so it's better for the mids. Who knows? I don't. I just think it's peculiar.


And what the hell are styrofoam-coned speakers? I see Wharfedale styrofoam-coned woofers on Ebay all the time. It looks like someone retrofitted a horse-apple dustcap onto a Wharfedale woofer. I mean, it looks like someone went out into a hayfield in Lancashire (Are there horse farms in Lancashire?), picked up a big, old horse chip, char-broiled it, and then custom-fitted it into a Wharfedale low-frequency driver. I assume it's got an earthy tone to it. Very-natural-sounding, yet dark.

 

I wanted to give an update of what I've learned so far about the W60E's:

First off, there is an earlier W60 model, which is really a different design than the W60E (or any of the D or E models of the '68-'73 period). It is a 2-way design that uses alnico drivers (See the pictures Rolf posted - And thanks for the help, Rolf - Sorry about the cynical, whiny earlier posts - You caught me during a rough patch). Also, that earlier W60 uses the sand-filled cabinets (My W60E's do not, but the cabs are still built like tanks). This is a speaker best suited for low-powered tube amps. Access to the drivers is done so through the back panel (which is very-heavy - so is the woofer - I believe it's a 12" woofer). The W60 is a speaker that sounds best playing classical or jazz.

The W60E is a 3-way acoustic-suspension model that has more in common with an AR3A than the earlier W60 model. The W60E is rated at 50w RMS power-handling (per-speaker). It works well with all kinds of music, IMO. Plenty of bass - the highs are smooth, and the mids are wonderful (The true strength of the W60E lies in it's mid-woofers). Great for classic rock/pop, jazz, classical, and all kinds of music. It's actually a very-versatile speaker.

Aside from being rear-loaded (and the earlier D models having a different tweeter), the W60D is pretty-much the same as the W60E. Still an acoustic-suspension design (The earlier Wharfedale models were ported), and the sound is very-similar to the W60E.

 

Gang Twanger

You are on dangerous ground

Wharfedale is in Yorkshire...

They fought the Wars of the Roses over that..

Are you sure the styrofoam drivers are not Leaks

Harold J Leak invented the sandwich concept

You should be more bold in investigation ,there are plenty of Wharfys out there

 

I see these on Fleabay all the time - clearly-labeled as Wharfedales. The woofer frames have the same look as the other cast-frame Wharfdale drivers. I would post a link, but I don't want this thread to get moved. Go on there and look up "vintage electronics" > "speakers" > "Wharfedale", and you won't miss them (You'll have to scroll down a bit, but they're on there. It looks like a standard Wharfedale 12" cast-frame woofer with a charcoal-styrofoam-ish type of thing set in there like a dustcap. It looks really-weird, kind of like they took a dried-up buffalo "chip", painted it black, and dropped it into the center of the speaker cone. It's the weirdest thing. But they're definitely listed on there - around $120 a pair for them (used, obviously).

 

Regarding those styrofoam woofers that I just mentioned, the seller that always has them up on Fleabay (the US version) is "phatstereo". They always have a lot of Wharfedale woofers, mid-woofers, and tweeters listed. The ones I'm talking about are usually near the end of his listings, but they're definitely there (I'm looking at a pair right now - 12" woofers). And by the way, I probably should mention that despite their being listed as "styrofoam-cone woofer speakers", the cones themselves actually appear to be the same paper or paper-pulp material that's used for the cones on most/all of the other woofers that they made back them (These look like they might be from the '70's, but I'm really not sure). The styrofoam part (which looks like a burnt buffalo chip) actually looks like it's resting on top of the woofer cone. I have no idea what the purpose of the styrofoam is, but it must have had some importance. It looks like they took one of their woofers and dropped a big chunk of road tar in the middle of the woofer cone.

 

Here's that FleaBay link for those Wharfedale woofers with the styrofoam. If someone has a good explanation as to why they made them like that, I would love to hear it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wharfedale-12-p...ptZVintage_Electronics_R2?hash=item413c1396e6

 

I used to own a pair of 'no letter' W60s. Definitely Alnico magnets. Mine had basically no treble above (guess) ~12k but were a pleasant enough sounding speaker. Very efficient, nice mids and great with voices. They were eventually replaced with a pair of KEF speakers. I'm not sure on the evolution of W60 changes but perhaps the Audio Karma site could fill you in.

 

I've actually been spending a lot of time on there, and I've gotten some very-helpful info. First of all, all of the earlier W models were ported models with rear-loaded drivers (and the W60 was a 2-way design) up until the "D" series (as in W60D) where the W models were redesigned and changed to a front-loaded, acoustic-suspension design (The W60 became a 3-way design with the W60D and W60E) and a sound that's more-characteristic of "east coast" American speakers like the AR3a and Large Advent. While it's a little different from the earlier models, I still think it's a great sound. The purple dome tweeter that's on the W60E (and the later version of the W60D) apparently sounds pretty-much the same as the "fried egg"-style tweeter that was on the earlier version of the W60D - Apparently the fried egg tweeter was having issues with the diaphram separating/splitting). So even though it's a redesigned speaker with a lot of "east coast" flavor, it still manages to retain that Wharfedale vibe. And these things have absolutely-zero-fatigue (I know because I've gone on 16-hour listening sessions with them before, and they just keep on smiling at me). The only time I stop listening is when I have to stop. I've been so-happy with mine, and I'm still underpowering them. Maybe they're ideal for my room size or something, but these are working out very, very-well.

 

What were you powering them with? Tube amp? Solid-state? Wattage?

I'm not sure about the W60, but I've been hearing a lot of good things about the various W70 models. The ones with the 15" woofer are supposed to be great. The cabs are huge though (The W90's are REALLY-huge - like the size of a pair of Bozak Symphonies - just a different shape though). I could probably fit the bigger W70's, but the W60E's seem like they're the perfect size for my place. I really dig the sound of mine. They sure ain't "Thrusters".

Right now I'm listening to the DCC CD of Coltrane's "Traneing In". First time I've heard this on these speakers - I never realized how great this disc sounds. I've been re-discovering a lot of the stuff that I had shelved for a while - anything that I haven't heard with the Wharfedales or the receiver I'm using with them. And everything sounds so-much better than I remembered it.

 

I powered the W60 with a number of inexpensive units - a 20W Rotel receiver (to keep that British flavor ya know), a McIntosh 250 amplifier and even momentarily some Dynaco Mark IIIs. They were certainly easy to drive and the wife loved them for music playback. They were non-fatiguing and sounded great with just about any material. However (audiophile geek alert!) they bass was really lumpy, detail was minimal and the treble was rolled off.

I blame most of the problems on the early tweeter plus I think there was a bit of a gap between the 12" woofer and the large tweeter. A three way would definitely been a better design.

 

That pretty much sums up my experience with the ones that I had. I sold them to a fellow for about $50 and they were in fine shape.

I believe the W60 was AlNiCo and then later versions went to ceramic. Here is a link to a guy's page who did a good photo essay of their dissection. W60 photos

-Bill

 

They were produced from about '73-'77 and sold for around $300 a pair. I believe they were 8 ohms and about 83db anechoic or 87db efficient in-room. 50w to get them to about 100db output and a max of maybe 100w although I'd not push them these days. Most speakers rarely ever need to see more than 50w to get them to levels that are very high for most rooms.
-Bill