Carbon Fiber Brush - Microabrasions!

I learned how to brush a record back in the 80s from my dad, with his velvet-ish antistatic brush from Japan. Nowadays, I use a Hunt EDA mk 6 now, on clean and dry records only, with great results. I've never had any abrasions at all.

Just follow the directions that came with the brush, or that have been posted here.

And to clear something up, the 'carbon' part of the Hunt brush are the bristles, not the pad. Someone posted something up-thread that made me think this was not clear to everyone.

 

No carbon brush for me, don't like them...
I use a wide short bristle sable hair art brush. Most of my records are pretty spotless from using a vacuum record cleaning machine and resleeving them after play. So I just need to touch them up most of the time to rid the occasional airborne dust particle or cat hair, what-have-you. But I use the brush (before play and after) with the bristle toward the on coming groove and it seems to work most effectively. An additional plus is they don't up price them for audiophiles. (Keep in mind: no brush cleans down into the record grooves, not even carbon fiber.)

 

Bet you a dollar that if you lightly drag the carbon fiber bristles of the Hunt brush across the flat vinyl area just outside the label you will see small abrasions from the carbon fibers.

 

Anyone use a "goats hair" brush like the ones to shine shoes or groom horses?

 

Too course, too stiff, (male) weasel hair, this is the ticket, a sable art brush!

 

Anybody mention or use the Milty DUOPAD as an alternate to the CFB?

 

There has been much obfuscation and silliness in this thread.

Doug

 

Excellent post and it's all true. The carbon fiber brush is one of the worst products ever foisted upon the record-playing public.

Doug

 

Not me. I'm dead serious about (male) weasel hair!

 

Does the weasel have to be dead before you harvest the hair or does it have to still be alive?

I was actually referring to the post I quoted and others by the same poster Not ONLY his, however. The extremes to defend the carbon fiber brush (carbon fiber brushes so good they uncover previous scratches!) is very amusing.

Doug

 

Live weasel are always more of a challenge and a bit greasier! Helps lubricate the stylus.

I know, just couldn't resist answering like as if...

 

Is using a soft microfiber cloth in the same manner as a carbon fiber brush preferable?

I noticed micro-abrasions when I first used the brush - incorrectly - which left definite but non-audible marks across the surface. That was from a scrubbing motion in the wrong direction with the record not spinning. Since then I haven't noticed anything left by the brush, holding it gently and letting the bristles drag in the direction of the grooves while spinning. But perhaps a microfiber cloth would do just as well to remove a bit of airborne debris before playing a clean record? The other thing I use on occasion is compressed air in a can.

 

Seriously though,
They will not be audible because there is no brush bristle fine enough to go into the grooves were the music is. A microfiber cloth may well just reintroduce contaminants. Again, I really do recommend a sable art brush. Above, I was kidding around a bit but they do work very well. The general idea of using any brush is to lift the contaminant off, without grinding it in to the grooves. Also, keep in mind this "brushing" is for touching up at the turntable, NOT deep cleaning like what a vacuum machine and wet solution hope to accomplish.

 

If that's truly the case, I'll just keep using my carbon fiber brush then. I wouldn't be using it in the first place if it wasn't doing anything. It easily removes light dust from a clean record, or anything that transfers from the mat to "Side 2" after flipping the record.

But those little bristles look a lot smaller than even my elliptical stylus... how do they avoid touching inside the groove?

 

Remember, just a small patch on either side of the tip of your stylus actually is in contact with the groove. I should say to be more precise, even if a bristle could fit into the groove, the chance it would have of fitting in between each and every very small undulation that describes the music detail and actually lift the contaminant is highly unlikely. I would agree, the carbon fiber brush does a reasonable job of what it is intended to do, I just prefer using something else to do the same.

My best recent reference to scale would be this article by Art Dudley. (third paragraph)

http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-147

 

Thanks VinylRob. Good info. to keep in mind. I may try a sable art brush, but in the mean time I'm not going to worry that I'm damaging the sound of my records with the carbon fiber brush. I use a Spin Clean for actual cleaning.

 

Thought you might enjoy that.

 

I see a lot of mentions about microfiber cloths being used. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't microfiber more abrasive than any carbon fiber brush? I've read accounts of microfiber cloths leaving fine scratches all over plastics like turntable dust covers, flat panel displays, and stuff like that.

I would be a lot more hesitant to use a microfiber cloth to wipe off my record than a carbon fiber brush. There's also a lot more surface area on a cloth than there is on a brush.

Just something to ponder.

 

Ok so advice on how to use an anti static carbon fibre brush. Get the record turning, apply brush downwards onto record surface lightly for at least a full rotation. Draw the brush bristles down so that they move over the spindle of the turntable. This earths the electrons that have built up on the brush (just like a woolly jumper) and induces the brush to have a charge that holds the dust particles to it. Lift brush and scrub using its casing as others have mentioned. Repeat if necessary.

This will pick up the line of dust people keep referring to, and is how the brush is supposed to be used.

That, along with the fact the bristles cannot penetrate the groove tells me that we should not be too worried about these micro-scratches that people are seeing (which I have never seen myself).

 

And yet any LP not treated with kid gloves with have microabrasions, if not worse. A simple paper sleeve or even another record of the exact same hardness dropping from a record changer will certainly cause visible, and in some cases audible, scratches and abrasions.

 

I have never seen a single fleck of dust collect on a carbon fiber brush. Ever. And certainly not with this technique. I have seen larger debris get caught in between the bristles, but not due to some sort of built up static charge.

The micro-scratches aren't IN the grooves (or I should say I have no idea if they are IN the grooves). They micro-scratches in the area BETWEEN the grooves. That the bristles cannot penetrate the grooves is irrelevant.

Unless of course you're trying to remove dust in the groove...in which case, they are ineffective at doing what they are supposed to do.

 

I've read of this as well. Enough to believe there has to be some truth to it. But my personal experience is that I've never seen any microabrasions from a microfiber cloth. There are differing qualities of microfiber cloth, so it could be that certain types/brands do cause microabrasions.

What does surface area matter? A needle has almost surface area and can absolutely ruin a record. I personally would use a microfiber cloth (which, I think, is kinda sorta what the old Discwasher was) before I would use a carbon fiber brush.

I would think that something like the Disc Doctor brushes might work if they were curved like the Discwasher brush.

 

I'm sorry, the insistence that these microfiber brushes damages an LP is just funny to me!!! I stated earlier that we are dragging a diamond along plastic...was told that was with the groove. If you can't see the damage it didn't happen? The bristles that I have are very soft...I want to get rid of the most dust I can before the needle encounters it, just how friggin' anal can one be? If it does not effect the sound...wait are the flippers the ones complaining? Anyhoo, I can not see damage...maybe my lights are not bright enough, or I am in denial, or....

 

Or your brush isn't doing it. But there are too many folks seeing them to think that they're just making it up about whatever brush they're using.

But as I said earlier, the fact that a particular brush doesn't cause microscratches is not exactly a selling point. It just means that it doesn't cause damage. That still doesn't mean it's an effective tool for removing dust.

 

I find it effective for removing larger surface dust, the cart can pick up that. as far as the 'too many folks" thing, on this forum, I have noticed that if the right person sees the emperors new clothes - then ...