Cartridge Loading

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Herbtwocrows, Jun 30, 2016.

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  1. Herbtwocrows

    Herbtwocrows Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Baltimore
    I'm about to buy a phono preamp. Some well reviewed preamps (e.g., Vincent Pho 800, CA CP2) do not provide adjustments to the load on the cartridge, especially capacitance. I've read comments that suggest you really need to get a good match between cartridge and preamp for the best sound. The Pro-Ject Phono Box S and the micro-iPhono2 do.

    How critical is this tuning in general? My cartridge is an Audio-Technica OC9

    Thanks for any advice.
     
    rtrt likes this.
  2. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Capacitance is not going to be a big deal with that cart or any moving coil but gain and resistive loading will certainly tailor the sound, so options are great to have. I think many people swap out phono preamps trying to get the sound they want when they should have bought something with options so they could figure out what worked best.
     
    OcdMan and russk like this.
  3. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    I completely agree. I think most people buy phono preamps based on reviews of their "sound quality" and buy blindly when it comes to compatibility and what their system needs for the best sound. I'd go so far as to say that most folks don't even know the basics when it comes to setting up a good turntable system. I also think lots of the "love this phono pre, hate this phono pre" statements are based on accidental compatibility or incompatibility without the knowledge of the listener.
     
  4. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Yes, this issue is close to my heart. I have used expensive mc,s for years .
    The phono stage/ pre was a Leak point one.
    Previous to this a mitchell iso hr. There's were fine.
    For various reasons i switched to using a passive preamp.
    This resulted in a requirement for a phono stage. I bid for and won an IFI phono stage on EBay.
    This had a good review in Hi FI
    It's well equipped, with various EQ curves, RCA, EMI, Decca, Columbia.
    Loading ie capitance, resistance ie 47k all catered for RIAA, IEC warp filter , in addition high/ low cartridges are catered for.
    I now realise that problems in the past with various cartridges were due to incorrect set up, and that sadly i never heard then at there best.
    MM cartridges in particular, respond well. To correct loading.
    In fact they are now my preferred cartridge!
    So yes,very worthwhile to look into the various options, i don,t envy you on this task. As there are so many!
     
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  5. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    That happens for sure. With moving-magnets, I've seen wild swings in frequency-response simply to due to big differences in the capacitance of the phono stage.
     
  6. husafreak

    husafreak Great F'n music that's difficult to listen to!

    Location:
    NorCal, Bay Area
    It is really something to try different cart loads and hear the differences. Not unusual to find a clear winner in a load that is not the one specified by the cart manufacturer either.
     
  7. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    And we can easily look at mathematical ideal loadings and use that to inform our listening experience.
     
    russk likes this.
  8. Captain Wiggette

    Captain Wiggette Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I use a AT MC cartridge (AT33PTG/II), and tweaked the resistance a little bit with Y adapters, but did not find the difference to be very much compared with doing the same with an AT440 MM cartrdige, where the resistive loading made much bigger impacts. I wouldn't worry as much for MC cartridges. I think it's probably just an experimentation route, buy/sell a variety of preamps on the used market, should be able to break even along the way, and see whether you hear much in the way of differences, and what you like.
     
    husafreak likes this.
  9. husafreak

    husafreak Great F'n music that's difficult to listen to!

    Location:
    NorCal, Bay Area
    Isn't that the truth? I would love to buy a bunch of used carts and compare them then keep the winner. I have no idea what the "house sound" is of most components. I've heard so few really.Buying used means I wouldn't lose my shirt every time I flip a cart.
     
  10. Rayboy

    Rayboy New Member

    Location:
    Australia
    The Audio Technica OC9/MLII cartridge has a strongly rising response in the top two octaves.

    Using SPICE simulation, an LRC shunt load network was derived which neutralises the HF peak and produces an almost dead flat frequency response.

    The LRC network is used with an active MC headamp. Each LRC network is wired in shunt with the respective input from the cartridge.

    The measurement setup is as set out below:

    TURNTABLE SETUP
    Linn Sondek turntable (unmodified)
    Fidelity Research FR-64S tonearm
    Audio Technica OC9/MLII cartridge (1.5g tracking weight)

    HEAD AMP
    AD797 head amp - see AD797 Head Amp Current Version February 2017.asc (note that DC offset trimpots are not included in simulation)
    100R plugin load resistors

    PREAMPLIFIER
    Custom 10 tube preamp (with optimised RIAA equalisation)

    COMPUTER
    Desktop computer - Pentium 2.4GHz
    CardDeluxe soundcard

    SOFTWARE
    Windows XP Pro SP3
    Cool Edit Pro 2.0 96kHz/16 bit WAV file recording
    Cool Edit Pro 2.0/Filters/FFT Filter/Inverse pink noise

    SIGNAL SOURCE
    Audio System Test Record
    Sound Canada; McGill University Records
    Side 1, Track 6 - General Purpose Pink Noise Signal

    Subjectively, the OC9/MLII has a neutral timbral balance with the LRC networks in place, and is completely free of the hot top end for which this cartidge is well known. Great sound for not much money!
     
  11. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum. You need to go into your user profile and fill-in the equipment profile listed under "information". That will help us understand where you are coming from and to give you the best advice. Without that info, and a budget for the new product, it's hard to give really useful advice.

    In short, you will be best served with a better quality phono stage as a LOMC cartridge depends upon the quality of the gain stage to deliver the best sound. You'll get noise and frequency peaks or dips with cheaper preamps. Also loading is important for resistance in a MC cartridge. Not as much capacitance effect, and most MC preamps don't have flexible enough capacitance options to deal with them anyway. You may get lucky and find that the OC9 sounds fine in your system when just set at the 100 ohms that the more affordable units offer, but many find that a lower resistance load is best.
    -Bill
     
  12. Hubert jan

    Hubert jan Forum Resident

    For MM loading see www.john-oates.jouwweb.nl
    Cartridge inductance can vary from 300 to 750 mH, modern cartridges have lesser inductance, perhaps because stronger magnets made that possible.
    Nowaday's standard loading still is 47 kOhm, lowering this can tame a cartridge a bit, see Q.
     
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