Cartridge & Phono Stage Advice For A Project 6 Perspex Turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by WaxMonsterX, Jul 16, 2017.

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  1. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Got a new Pro-ject 6 Perspex on the way without a cartridge and I know it's normally bundled with the Sumiko Blue Point Special Evo III, but are there other good cartridges in that price range 400-600 that may be a better fit for the table. Also gonna need a phono stage. Same price range. Love to hear some great recommendations.
    Thanx.
    System:
    Arcam Alpha 10 Integrated
    Joseph Audio RM25Xl
    Cary Audio DMC600
    Monster HTS 5100
    Nordost 4 Flat Speaker Cable
     
  2. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Look here for your price range for cart and phono amp.

    All Cartridges

    Don't forget to look on the same site for the phono amps.

    I can make one suggestion for you. I have a Denon DL-S1 which is extremely low...o.15mV. Needs about 70db to drive correct. My Musical Surroundings Phonomena ll+ which is a very nice phono stage only goes to 60db... wont do the DL-S1 any justice. Had the Creek OBH- 15 MK2 in a second system and up t0 the point of acquiring the Denon had use it with MM carts only. But it goes up to 80db with MC carts. So I replaced the MS Phonomena with the Creek and she sings like the dickens! IF the MS Phono is a 10, the Creek is a 9, only because its not as dark in the back ground as the MS but you cant hear it with music playing and only when you go up to the speaker... But its dynamic, detailed and most of all neutral in presentation....it saved me from buying a SUT at the moment. And the Creek is only $595. Its playing on the same level as the Musical Surroundings, I'd say. So put that one on your list.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
    bluemooze likes this.
  3. PoeRaider

    PoeRaider Forum Resident

    In your cart price range I think you have to very seriously consider the AT33PTG/II if you want a moving coil. There's a thread dedicated to it in this forum somewhere for more info. Personal experience is very positive, no IGD ever (unless its in the grooves). Not the richest or fullest sounding cart out there, but at this price point it's unbeatable imo. YMMV. You'd have to buy from Japan through either Amazon third party or Ebay (good feedback for 2juki). Also note this cartridge is not supported by Audio Technica US for warranty purposes since it is meant for the Japanese market. Mine is flawless at around 400 hours.

    A newer option, the Hana Elliptical (L or H) cartridges are in your price range, and get lots of love, though I've never heard one. (I want to). I would probably try to stretch to the Hana SL for the more advanced stylus tip personally.

    My favorite budget phono stage is the Parks Audio Budgie. Tons of loading options for MM carts, 50pf input capacitance, no op-amps (pure tube sound), just very well designed all around. Noiseless. You would need a SUT or MC headamp to use it with a moving coil though. I use a Parks Audio Cinemag SUT with the Budgie, great synergy. (No, I'm not Shannon Parks, I just love his stuff :) )

    Another forum favorite phono is the Lounge Audio LCR MKIII. The designer posts here frequently and there's a thread on it. Another nice budget stage.

    Just a few options. Honestly, it's tough without being able to hear things before buying, to make sure it suits your taste.
     
    Davey likes this.
  4. paulieb00

    paulieb00 Senior Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Hi and congrats on the new table.
    The newish Sumiko BPS EVO III "LOW" output version is wonderful cart.
    Much better than the high output version.
    As for a phono preamps that handles lomc carts, the new Audio By Van Alstine Vision Q at $500 is killer.
    I have tried it with some homc and mm carts and I felt it was better than the much admired Budgie and Lounge preamps, plus it has lomc capability.
    It gives my Parasound Halo JC3 a good run for the money in many ways.
     
    PoeRaider and Slippers-on like this.
  5. sturgus

    sturgus Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis Mo
    You will get lots of good recommendations. I can only offer what I am familiar with. In your budget for cartridge I think I would stick with MM. The Nagaoka MP 200, Audio Technica 150MLX are a consideration.
    Nagaoka MP-200 phono cartridge
    AT150MLX Audio Technica Cartridge

    The Phonostage I reccomend is Graham Slee. There are others that will be just as good but the Slee is one the few who allow you to hear it in your system. If you join their forum they will allow you to try their products in your system for at least 2 weeks. It only cost you the price of shipping too and back. Not much since the products are small in size. Also if you like the product and you participate in the forum you may even get a discount for your participation.
    Graham Slee Audio Forum | HiFi System Components
     
    Shiver likes this.
  6. PoeRaider

    PoeRaider Forum Resident

    Now you have me wanting to try the Van Alstine as well. I am hopeless. :winkgrin:

    I do like that they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. I just might have to try one, after your rave reviews.

    Any idea what the input capacitance is? I guess I'll email them and ask. Also, it looks like the switches for gain and load are inside the case, that's a bit unusual. I assume the top comes off fairly easily.

    Also, I second the Nagaoka and AT150MLX carts, those are excellent choices in the OP's price range. I think some even prefer the MP-150 over the 200 for the Nag, just a consideration. You do get a boron cantilever with the 200 though, rather than the aluminum of the 150.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  7. sturgus

    sturgus Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis Mo
    Wax Monster, do you have the Phono Card in your Arcam? I was wondering if so how does it sound?
     
  8. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    If I was starting out again and had that budget I'd probably get the Nagaoka MP-200. Fitted one to a friend's table and am really impressed with its breadth of ability and engaging delivery. More of a full, warm-of-neutral delivery than some others but not unnaturally so and still nicely detailed. (Obviously check compliance on your arm though, for this and any cart recommendation).

    Would you go used/ex-demo for the phono stage? Pretty safe, SS anyway.
     
  9. DrZhivago

    DrZhivago Hedonist

    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Hi,

    I also have 6Perspex. While it's not practical or even beneficial to suggest something specific, given the differences in the rest of our systems (synergies).
    I run 6Perspex with an Ortofon 2mBlack and Pro-Ject Phono tube amp with Genalex Gold Lions instead of stock tubes. Sound is sooo good.

    You can check the rest of my equipment in my profile.

    Regards
     
    Dadawada likes this.
  10. paulieb00

    paulieb00 Senior Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think you will be very surprised by the Van Alstine Vision Q. It has been upgraded with better opamps since it first came out and was reviewed.
    I don't know off hand about the input capacitance of the unit. Frank could tell you. He (Frank Van Alstine the owner) answers the phone when you call.
    There are 4 screws that hold the top cover on. Very easy to take off and get to the dip switches. Also has nice diagram on inside of top cover for selecting proper settings.
    I will admit that I am a hard core LOMC guy. I love that sound and can't go back to MM carts (at least in my main system).
     
    PoeRaider likes this.
  11. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Is there any internal difference between the Musical Surroundings Phonomena ll+ and the Musical Surroundings Phonomena ll, or is it purely cosmetic? I hadn't really looked at Denon. I'll do some research. Thanx.


     
  12. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Thanx for the info. I've had ATs in the past (way back) and was happy. I'm new to Hana, so I will do some research. It is impossible to make an informed choice when combining these 3 elements (table, cart and phono stage). I listen to all kinds of music (which doesn't really help) but no classical or much jazz on LP so that would put me in the rock, funk, soul category. If I could get some recommendations based on those factors it would be great. Looking at the Ortofon Black & Bronze. I'm not in a big rush and want to get this set up right. I know I will have to jump in and pull the trigger at some point in the near future.

     
  13. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    The Sumiko is what was supposed to come in the bundle so it is in the running. Thanks for the Low vs High info. And honestly there are just too many damn phono stages out there LOL.

     
    paulieb00 likes this.
  14. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    No phono, been running through a cheap NAD p-stage for years. Time for a serious upgrade.
     
  15. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Thanx Dr. The Ortofon Black is on my list for sure. Just a little past what I want to spend so I may have to wait a little more till the bank account gets a little fatter. Tell me about the 6 Perspex? Like it? Luv it? Hard to set up? I hate setting up cartridges. Have you ever had any other carts on the deck? Curious. The Project Tube maps seems plentiful and fairly inexpensive. Interesting to note the tube swap out. Hmm. I believe my plug & play days are over. LOL


     
  16. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    I would most def go used on a phono stage. Not on a cartridge as I won't trust the supposed hours on it. Nagaoka is a new name to me like the Hana but I will add it to the list and do some digging. I like a full robust and detailed sound. I'm into detail. Not a lot of colorization. And of course a nice soundstage. I would think the 6 Perspex arm should work with a variety of carts.

     
  17. Shiver

    Shiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Haven't heard any Hana but they seem really well liked.

    You may well have already covered this but it might be worth factoring-in the cost of replacing the cartridge/stylus/re-tip - especially if stretching your initial purchase and intend a lot of use. Not sure if people even bother re-tipping cheaper MC carts.
     
  18. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    I don't have a lot of experience with swapping out cartridges or stages, but have an Ortofon on my Dual and a Soundsmith on my Rega. I am happy with both. Will likely move up the Soundsmith chain at some point for the Carmen, most likely. Currently have the Otello, which has been very nice and is in your price range. It's a moving iron which you would use as a MM.

    I just received (yesterday) a new phono pre from Tavish Design, the Vintage with the Tung Sol tubes. It may stretch your budget a bit, but from my one evening of listening, it competes with the Phenomena (an earlier model) I used to use, which cost almost twice as much. I was on a wait list for the Tavish, but was fortunate to not have to wait too long.

    As mentioned, there are a ton of choices out there. Good luck.
     
  19. DrZhivago

    DrZhivago Hedonist

    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    I had my TT and cart professionaly setup by my local hi-fi store.
    From what I observed, 6Perspex was very simple to put together, right out of the box. 2m Black took some time to properly fit and allign.
    6Perspex comes with 4 different counterweights, a small spirit leveler, record clamp and other bits n pieces.
    To this day, I have no idea why 4 different counterweights are supplied with this TT?

    Also worth noting. It took some time to adapt to lifting the record of the platter without pulling the belt along :). Tonearm head holder is also slippery and short and as it slids from your fingers can cause you to push it towards the clamp. This can damage stylus, so take it easy there.

    Apart from that, very nice sounding and also nice looking turntable.

    Regards
     
  20. Wired4Fun

    Wired4Fun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Had this table for a while. It was great! Enjoy :)

    That said, the Sumiko was $200 extra as an add on when I got mine, making it a NO brainer. Not sure if that option is available to you. But for $200... you will not find a better cart, IMHO. That said, $549, it's actual cost, opens doors as stated above by others.
     
    paulieb00 likes this.
  21. PoeRaider

    PoeRaider Forum Resident

    I contacted Frank and he got back to me with an input capacitance value of 30pF. Just what I wanted to hear. Some of my MM's sound best with the lowest possible capacitance, and the ones that sound better with higher capacitance I can just tweak with longer cables. The Budgie has an input capacitance of 50pF, so that has been my go-to for MM carts recently (not to mention the dizzying array of MM loading options, so I would never sell my Budgie).

    I think I am going to have to give the Vision Q a try.
     
  22. WaxMonsterX

    WaxMonsterX Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Thanx for all the helpful info! I went with a Musical Surroundings Phonomena II. Still working on a cartridge. I'm high on the Hana SL. Other reviews and opinions on the Ortofon 2M Black say it van be "too revealing" causing harsh highs.
     
  23. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    The Phonomena II+ is a really nice little preamp, I actually picked one up used recently for a second system I've been putting together and refining off and on for awhile now. I'm currently using a Audio Technica AT33PTG/II cartridge in that system, and it sounds very nice. It's below $500 (sometimes has been getting down to around $450), so a bargain in today's low output moving coil market (0.3mV output), especially considering the tapered boron cantilever and line contact stylus. They look a little clunky compared to some of the more sexy cartridges on the market (I also have a Benz Micro Wood SL that is in the main system, and I think it is one of those sexy looking cartridges :)), but this AT delivers on many levels. I haven't heard anything in the Hana line, but you may want to add the AT33PTG/II to your list, there's a big thread around here, not sure if it's still open, but lots of info ...

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
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