CDs over LP/records assessment - a must watch for experts and beginners

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by raimiz1991inc, Apr 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Monty doesn't use his ears.
     
  2. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    But his brain. You'll find that's more reliable.
     
    Metalrob likes this.
  3. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan
    Indeed. And genetic anomalies are so far into what is as yet unexplored and uncountable, unknowable, that doctors, biologists, geneticists, et al, are still baffled every day by new things.

    As far as consumer fraud goes, it may not be provable,
    especially if all lips are sealed. BUT ~ can anyone prove the two layers on an SACD hybrid are not from the same master ?
    It seems we have reached an impasse in the debate. I already know there is a difference in sound quality.
    The makers of the hybrid discs say it is the format which makes the difference.
    Detractors say that is a hoax, that it can only be the mastering. And yet, no one seems to have mastered any Redbook CDs that might be held up as examples of how 16/44.1 can sound just as good. You do see the conundrum.

    * edit* ...and besides, why go to all that length to spin some allegedly fictitious yarn about hi-rez being a superior format just to charge more money for a better mastering, when they could just as easily put a sticker on it that says:
    " improved mastering ", and charge more money for it (?) I mean, it is not as if the industry doesn't already do that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
  4. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Yes: One would just have to exctract both signals and compute the difference between both curves. If they are from the exact same master with the only distinction being bit depth and sampling frequency, the difference wave form must by definition be a few decibels of white noise plus audio above 20 kHz. If that is the case, they are from the same master, and they will for all practical purposes sound the same to humans. If the difference is anything else, and especially if it's audible, they're not.

    Of course the above test presupposes the very thing you're doubting, namely that the difference between red book and hi res is nothing but ultrasonics and noise. That test does not help to prove that, because there's too many variables.

    But there are other tests that can. Double blind testing of music before and after it has gone through a 16/44 loop is one such test. Double blind testing of 16/44 vs higher res is another.

    I never used the word "hoax". I'm sure those products are fine for what they are.

    I've digitised many LPs to CD in a home environment. Not that what I did there proves anything, because I didn't do a double blind test of the results. But other people have done such tests, see above.
     
  5. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan
    Interesting info above, @anorak2 :thumbsup:
    thank you for your thoughtful replies.
     
    Metalrob and anorak2 like this.
  6. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    No. Your ears are part of your brain. He's cutting off half of his sensory receptors. That's not something I can trust.
     
  7. Initially, CD's in the U.S. were fairly expensive as was the equipment to play them with. The first CD's available here were in the $20.-$25. range. The early Sony CD players were in the $2,000. range. At that time, LP's were in the $7.-$8. range.
    When the major record companies realized that CD sales were seriously cutting in on cassette sales, they made deals with their overseas partners in Japan and Germany to direct import from them U.S. albums. RCA Victor used their JVC associate in Japan to manufacture CD's for them. CBS/Columbia also had ties with Sony in Japan and imported their CD's. Polygram and Phonogram associated labels imported theirs from Germany. China was bootlegging CD's into the U.S. and they weren't of the best quality.
    As CD's were really taking off, CD manufacturing facilities started popping up. Then the prices really started dropping and may have even been loss-leaders. CD's started taking over former LP bins and cassettes were disappearing. A California based chain of record stores, Tower Records, began putting current release CD's on sale for $7.99-$10.99 while the normal price for LP's was $8.88.
    Other chain stores, like The Wherehouse, without having a sale or any public notification, started boxing up LP's and replaced them with CD's. The "oldies" 45rpm 7" records hung around for another couple of years and current releases all but disappeared.
    Today, you can buy brand new CD's, some even current, at places like Amazon for as low as $10. or less. On top of that, Amazon gives you a free mp3 download so that you can listen to your purchase before you even received the CD or record. As a rule, I don't buy mp3's. All that I have were free legitimate downloads. Sometimes when you buy an LP, it comes with a free download card for mp3 or even wav files of the album plus extra tracks. The wav files sound usually better than the CD itself. When I convert my records to wav files, I like the sound better than a CD and even the record itself after I have removed all the ticks and pops.
     
    raimiz1991inc and anorak2 like this.
  8. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The audio examples are clearly audible in the video.
     
    Metalrob likes this.
  9. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    No. What I mean is that he does nothing but talk about the numbers. Science has not progressed to the point where it can measure all of what we humans are capable of hearing. Just saying that humans can hear between a certain range of frequencies isn't enough. It's the nuance, and other subtle things that influence what each of us hear. All Monty does is mouth off numbers, and that makes the objectivists feel good. The human brain is much more advanced than our current understanding of math.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine