Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by pocofan, Apr 7, 2018.
Yeah, like how people back in the 80s called CDs "tapes".
It is not erroneous. It does sound warmer regardless of how or why. Take, for example, a perfectly photoshoped picture of someone. In most cases, the picture is so clean and perfect that the subject looks like a cartoon character. The word ''cold'' is often ascribed to these pictures. Inversely, a photograph with slight imperfections, such as grain or blemishes (god forbid!), or dirt in your parlance, will sometimes be described as ''warm''. Personally, in the long run, I'll prefer the picture that's dirtier (pun intended).
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I know what you mean, but if a musician wanted to dirty the music, it would have been done in the studio. I don't want an ancient analogue format to add things which aren't even predictable.
That's ok. There are no absolutes here. We each have our preferences. The important thing is to be properly informed and to keep an open mind - and not just regarding audio matters.
One thing that constantly gets ignored in discussions like these is that the big box retailers are largely responsible for the fall of CDs. Once Tower, Circuit City, Musicland, Sam Goody's, mom & pops, and whatever else started to close up shop, the loss-leader stores like best Buy and Walmart became the main sources. But, they aren't in the music-selling business, so they only sell the highest-charting stuff, new releases, and greatest hits CDs, and the space they devote to them is shrinking to one shelf or less. Best Buy is scheduled to eliminate them altogether this summer. Walmart won't sell uncensored product, and Target is even more limited in the number of CDs they sell.
Amazon sells CDs of all kinds, but not only am I starting to see titles shrinking, but many people still do not like ordering things online if they aren't forced to. They like the traditional way of shopping. They like to scratch and sniff. (For me, my only option is to go to a regional music store called Zia's Record Exchange, or drive to L.A..)
The last U.S. economic recession of a decade ago caused a lot of people to realize just how hard it is to pay a nominal $13 for one album when they can stream all they want for less. They don't want to get bogged down with possessions, so streaming to their smartphones is a wise choice for them. Sound quality is not an issue to these folks. And, don't blame it on the kids. There are plenty of adults in their thirties and forties doing the same thing. It reminds me of a scene in the old TV show E.R. where a doctor was telling his wife how they could throw out all their CDs and just have them on a smartphone. That was fifteen years ago!
Vinyl? A lot of people buy it because they believe they sound superior. But, you cannot tell me that all of these people have audiophile gear. No way! I would love to see someone do a real survey of random shoppers of why they buy vinyl instead of we middle-aged guys trying to speculate why. Certainly people with a lot of disposable income are buying all those minty-fresh new titles for $22 a pop, when they can get the same titles for cheaper on a digital format. Others are buying used records, and I doubt they have good playback gear. I think those people are buying more for the nostalgia, and for music not obtainable anywhere else.
I have a nice turntable, two of 'em. But, I just don't want to be bothered with vinyl anymore. It's a hassle. Records take up space, and I don't know if I enjoy the process of creating needledrops anymore. But, there is still music only obtainable through vinyl, especially 45s.
Downloads? Just who are those people buying downloads? There are people locked into the iTunes system, but what about all the other sites? What about hi-rez? Who are these people, and why do they opt for downloading? I download so that I can have quality-sounding music at my disposal. I download those lossless albums I can't buy anywhere else.
. . . and?
That 'warmth" of vinyl is a result of the playback system. Your playback system should not be adding its own sound signature. If you have the same mastering, your digital source should sound extremely close to the vinyl.
. . . the 20s-50s must have all been dressed in tuxedos.
As much as I love vinyl, I would never really switch back. I would have to pay a lot of money for a decent turntable and then rebuy things I already own on CD, which would sound a little warmer but not better, except maybe for something like Abba, which is famously not good on CD.
Then I would have to worry about cleaning, the stylus, inner groove distortion, bad pressings, warped LPs, good releases vs. cheap releases and all that stuff.
Then I would have to do all this tweaking and upgrading, which maybe a fulfilling hobby but on the other hand, a CD-player sounds perfect when you plug it in, while with vinyl you have to work wour way towards perfectness first.
Because I noticed, whenever someone is underwhelmed by vinyl in this forum, they are usually reminded that they did not spend enough money on their turntable.
I think that with streaming and other advances in portable technology, CD's would be on the decline now even if it weren't for the recession. If you're not an audiophile, why have a collection of dozens of CD's when you can fit all of that and more on your phone, or just stream music and have access to more than you could ever buy? One has to be really dedicated to physical media to want to hold on to it. I remember ten years ago, a department manager at the place where I work was talking about how he ripped all his CD's and got rid of them. The guy makes well into six figures - he wasn't hurting for $13 for CD's, he just didn't see any point when he could rip everything and carry it on his phone.
As to vinyl, the "audiophile gear" thing is relative. I suspect that a lot of people here would not consider my cheap rig to be "audiophile gear" and yet my LP's sound great. They sounded great way back about 17 years ago when I had really crappy gear and very little knowledge compared to now. Vinyl LP's, and anything really, is not justified by the fullness of the knowledge and resources with which people use it but by the enjoyment that it brings to those who appreciate it. He who enjoys that which he has, and where his choices have led him, wins. The majority of people involved in anything are going to be approaching it with more enthusiasm than knowledge. The lack of knowledge doesn't discredit their enthusiasm.
The funny thing is, if CDs weren't a little obsolete, I would not buy so many of them. If I still had to pay for CDs what people pay for vinyl these days, I would probably rely on Spotify. But now that shops sell off their CDs for a few euros and people give away entire collections for a few cents per CD, I buy more than ever.
??? Not sure why you quoted me. Can you please elaborate? All playback systems have their own sound signature - from the type of cartridge used to the type of cd player used.
I wish I had bought like 5 Oppos
I don’t think we had that brand here.
The "warmth" of vinyl is because its all analog. The quality of CD playback is mostly dependent on the DAC you are using. Which will also be adding its own sound signature.
We do (soon to be did), from proper Hi Fi retailers, I got my Oppo BDP 103D from Acton Gate in North Wales. Wish I'd bought two.
I always thought they were a US thing. I’ve never seen that brand in my Hi Fi shops. Not that there’s many of those nowadays.
Having said that, you can still buy the odd Oppo player from market place sellers on Amazon, so they must be around here.
I have no hard data about this but I have seen an enormous amount of new (not used, new) CDs on Amazon. I really don't understand where this shrinking title thing is coming from.
I also just want to say that I think you're at least somewhat right about big box stores becoming loss leaders leading to an ultimate decline. There was even a legal case about CD price fixing in the late 90s and early 2000s that I think is fairly overlooked.
Years ago you bought vinyl because that was the go to format, superior sound be damned. A lot of us older guys/gals still have a soft spot for it and so still collect it. And as far as the audio gear goes, not everyone is looking for the best sound money can buy. Why should they? We never did when we were younger. They want the experience.
Amazon is carrying less and less "deep" inventory of older CDs these days. I've definitely noticed it over the past year or two. They've started transitioning to carrying select older CDs as burned CD-Rs, even from the major labels.
While I have seen that occasionally for CDs and DVDs, I haven't seen it in a large enough scale, or, more importantly, for new releases. Can you give an example or two?
We certainly did. A few dealers still have some stock.
You must have a Richer Sounds near you. Bought my 205 from them but I generally order online these days if possible to get the 30 day 'approval' period.
Yes, I’ve had to resort to online shopping now.
The warmth of vinyl is your record deck. Vinyl should not be warm unless the recording is that way. Vinyl can sound like mud or strip paint depending on the recording / mastering. I think when people call it 'warm' they may have be referring to a digital sheen that many and certainly older CD players produced. Warm to newbie vinyl enthusiasts might just be a lack of resolution from their Crosley type player.
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