CDs with tracks that play perfectly but can't be ripped without errors

I've been converting my CDs to flac files, and I've noticed this with a number of CDs:

- CD looks flawless to the eyes, no scratches or marks
- The track in question plays perfectly in a regular CD player, no skipping/errors/artifacts audible
- Despite this, the track in question cannot be ripped onto a computer - doesn't matter if I'm using EAC/dbpoweramp in secure or burst mode, doesn't matter which DVD/CD drive I'm using to rip (I have 4 or 5 different ones in the house)... the track will cause the ripping speed to slow way down and ultimately won't rip without errors/digital glitches no matter how long and how many ways I try.

It's weird to me that the disc would play fine, but be impossible to rip cleanly - does anyone have a technical/physical explanation for what causes this? In my collection of roughly 3,000 discs, I've had this happen more times than I anticipated. Probably less than 1% of CDs, but I guess I have enough discs that I've noticed it.

Is it possible that this happens to a small number of discs in most production runs? Like anything mass-produced, I wouldn't expect CDs to be free of defects 100% of the time.

I haven't noticed any commonalities concerning pressing plant, year of production, etc... so far, the only pattern I've noticed is that the affected tracks are usually towards the end of the CD (i.e. the last track or two).

 

The last track on Guns And Roses/Chinese Democracy wouldn't rip on my MAC. So I left it off.

 

Out of the 1500+ CDs that I have converted to FLAC only a handful gave me problems ripping. Ratt - Dancing Undercover (Japan for US) was one of them.

 

I have the same problems with a few CD's. They play perfectly in a regular CD player but my computer CD/DVD drive just encounters errors when I try to rip these CD's. Very annoying to say the least ...

 

That one may have emphasis. Does that cause problems?

 

Computer drives: I changed out an older Acer CD rom with a newer faster Asus CD rom and I had read problems with Moody Blues Days of Future Passed CD. Changed back to Acer and no problem. I use Acer drive to rip with EAC, nero 6 to burn on a Memorex CD/DVD burner (offsets configured).

Standalone audio CD recorder: Had problems reading a library CD even with the Acer. Copied from Onkyo CD player onto a standalone Pioneer PDR-555RW no problem. Was able to copy this standalone created CD copy on computer using EAC fine.

Have also had problems playing standalone copied audio CDs on older CD players in 94 Ford Explorer and very early Kenwood DP-700. Copied standalone audio CDs to data CD-R on computer played fine in Ford and Kenwood.

Not sure how to interpret this or trends but just thought I would add my experiences FWIW. The only thing I can say is it could be the CD format/formulations or the abilities of the CD drives themselves?

 

I think a standalone audio CD player probably has better errors-correction capability than most of the cheapo DVD/CD drives ...

 

Not sure...

I've ripped other CDs in my collection that had pre-emphasis without any problems (ex. Billy Joel - 52nd St., Japan for Japan).

 

My problem was with Only a Northern Song On the Yellow Submarine Songtrack. Plays fine but every rip on multiple computers has an annoying modulation roll sort of thing, like it was overloading.

 

The answer is interpolation. If a CD player encounters a 'bad' area on a disc that cannot be data corrected it will first attempt interpolation, then, if the 'problem' persists, the player will mute. Due to the use of data interleaving, the interpolated sections are very small and distributed over many data blocks, so the disc may appear to play fine. In the case of data extraction, the drive is trying to unambiguously determine data values in the 'bad' area of the disc. If it cannot do this, the drive will eventually give up.

 

I don't know but weren't some CDs copyright protected preventing copying?

 

Coopmv above is right. If you just play a CD on a conventional CD player, then take its digital out and capture that on a computer, you have a digital copy of that file. This will circumvent any copy protection, and in some cases, will yield better copies in the case of damaged discs -- assuming the CRC error protection in the player can interpolate the corrected data.

 

Disc one of the Beatles' Anthology 2. Not a mark on it, but it won't rip the last track and I've tried it on three computers.

 

Using the digital out will probably result in some jitter.

 

what do these rips sound like? can you hear any errors?

 

Yes, the errors are audible. The resulting files have clicking, popping, or skipping sounds.

There are cases where I've had discs like these, and was able to find replacements that ripped perfectly. On the other hand, there are a very select few where I bought a replacement disc and encountered the exact same problem, which would suggest a problem with the entire run or at least a good portion of it (off the top of my head, two I can remember are Gene Parsons: The Kindling Collection, Boyz II Men: Cooleyhighharmony reissue w/ blue cover).

 

My Symphony x V album. It even does it on my home component system burner. After i tried burning this album, then after it didnt work, (on the last track) I had problems playing it. On the last track it would skip towards the end. So i had to buy the cd again.

 

I encountered two cases. In both cases, it was the last track or the last few tracks of the CD's that refused to rip. The tracks that were ripped from those CD's sounded just fine. But my standalone CDP's have no problems playing those CD's.

 

I've also had a couple of CDs where the computer won't read them at all. One is disc 2 of the 2 disc Definitive Everley Brothers mastered by Bill Inglot. I even bought a second one from the shop to try on the proviso I could bring it back. It's perfect to look at but I've tried 3 different computers and it's like there's no disc in there at all. But it plays fine in a CD player. What gives?

 

Some attributed this to the more forgiving standalone CDP since it does not have the much more sophisticated software behind the CD/DVD drive on a computer. The truth is, if the same CD plays in the standalone CDP and I cannot hear anything bad, why should the CD/DVD drive not be able to play or rip that CD?

 

Sorry to hear that. It ripped fine on my iMac.

 

I've wondered this myself. My perfect condition West German John Cougar album won't play at all on my computer, much less rip, but a CDR of the same album made with a stand alone burner had no problem being ripped.

 

Just what kind of errors will you see reported if you try to rip a copy-protected audio CD? I am not sure if I have ever encountered one ...

 

Mosaic Records

A number of CDs from Mosaic Records' box sets can take hours to read on Exact Audio Copy (EAC). The EAC reports show many "suspicious positions" and "track quality" under 10% (track quality referring to difficulty reading the disc, which does not necessarily translate into problems with the resulting computer file). The CDs play fine and the resulting mp3's are okay, but a royal pain to rip.

These problems come up with new box sets I've purchased from Mosaic, as well as used box sets with "mint condition" discs. I have tried ripping on different drives, with the same results. Since it happens often with Mosaic Records' CDs, I am guessing that it is something particular to how they manufacture their CDs.

Has anyone else had similar issues with Mosaic's titles?