Cheap OJC vinyl for real?

Hi folks ...

I keep coming across lots of sealed OJC classic jazz records that are pretty reasonably priced.

My question: Are these anologue-sourced LPs or digital knock-offs done by Scorpio or some such?

I sent an email question to Fantasy Records about this, but they haven't responded.

Regards, CJ

 

I just went to a record show and there were a fair number of sealed reissues of stuff that used to be on OJC, but they were not OJC's. So make sure it's not those. Real sealed OJC's will have, besides the OJC catalog number, a yellow or grey paper band running along the left front side of cover with comments and star ratings (usually from downbeat jazz magazine). OJCs are analog up to about catalog numbers in the 260's, that is around when OJC began making cd's and you also began to see the "digitally remastered" statement on the back of the jacket, starting in the upper 200's catalog numbers, it seems some are digital and some are'nt. Some have the statement "digitally remastered by Phil delancie", but have George Horn's initials in the wax for example. George Horn cut most of the OJC albums, and my guess would be he didnt always use the digital source, even if it says digitally remastered on the jacket, but you can rest assured anything before about cat # 265 is analog. I bought all the ones I wanted back in the early 90's. They are all pretty good jazz records, and some sound really good too, I like George Horn's work. If they are real sealed OJC's and sealed I would say scarf them up pronto.

 

I have been told that all of the OJC LPs are analog cut. The artwork for the back of some of the later LPs was copied from the CD artwork, hence the "digitally remastered" note that shows up here & there. I think it was just poor quality control on someone's part.

BTW, the yellow or gray paper bands disappeared many years ago. They are not on any that I've seen around Boston. The telltale sign that it's an OJC pressing and not a digitally-sourced Scorpio pressing is the catalog number. All OJC LPs' catalog numbers start with OJC.

Kevin

 

Also I'd add that Real OJC's are long out of print, Fantasy/OJC was acquired by Concorde music group awhile ago. Joe Tarrantino, one of the fine OJC engineers now works with Concord group doing classic jazz titles on cd that they are reissuing, many of which were done by him, Phil Delanice or others previously as Fantasy/OJC's.

 

"Art Pepper Today" OJC is digital and others are too. Compare to the Fantasy/Galaxy pressing and it should be pretty obvious the OJC is digital. I don't remember ones that didnt have the band, or at least a similar sticker with the downbeat rating and quotes.

 

Looks like Concorde music group is reissuing Vinyl under the OJC moniker, note the listed CAT#OJCLP-021. I did see a copy of this at the record fair. So I guess your designator between new in print sealed OJC's and older sealed out of print ones will be the presence or absence of the "LP" part of the catalog number, and the stickers/paper bands.

http://www2.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/Soultrane-LP-OJCLP-021/#

 

What makes it obviously digital? I've been fooled by digitally sourced LPs in the past. I've never found any one signature of a digital source. EQ can do far more damage to the sound of an LP than using a digital master. Are you sure they didn't just do a bad cut on the Art Pepper LP?

Has someone at OJC/Fantasy ever come out and said that there were LPs cut from a digital source? What I heard (read maybe?) was that they were cut from the analog masters. Steve has said that he's seen master tapes with notations from the LP cutting process.

As for the paper obi, I haven't seen one around here in quite a while. I had forgotten about them until I found some used LPs in a bin and then I remembered how much of a PIA they were to try and slide off/on.

 

There's still a TON of OJC's out there, much in M- shape. The OBI's are kinda silly to keep, IMHO. Just a simple review of the music, not adding much to the package.

Next time you're in Boston, go to Stereo Jacks near Porter Square. There's always enough OJC LPS in there to make your year quota. They're excellent, mostly it's $7.99 in there.

 

I see quite a few of these around here in the East Bay, as well, possibly due to the fact that Fantasy was located in Berkeley? I really need to start picking them up if they're less than $10 (which most of them are), even if they're by an artist I haven't heard.

 

I was in Jack's yesterday and he has tons of them used for $5-8. I bought a bunch of Van Gelder Blue Notes instead.

 

It is not a bad sounding record. I am not saying digital Lp's can not sound good. In the comparison I noted a slightly pinched quality of timbre across the spectrum and a bit of hash in upper end, and a very tight but less full bass. Sonny rollins way out west OJC sounds digital to me also. Fantasy/OJC issued some Lps and cd's that say "mixed and transferred to Mitsubishi X 80", those albums have the same qualities I hear in certain OJC Lp's. If you say no single OJC Lp is digital and know this for a fact, then I'd say maybe so, but some sound like they are.

 

Thanks for leaving me some.

 

What store in LA would have these in bulk? Amoeba Hollywood doesn't seem to ever have many...

 

Many OJC vinyl LP's are still in print and active releases from Concord. They are not Scorpio (or similar) type reissues, they are proper releases.

These are still available as "new" releases:

Abbey Lincoln - Abbey Is Blue [LP] / OJC069
Andre Previn/Russ Freeman - Double Play! [LP] / OJC157
Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers - Kyoto [LP] / OJC145
Art Pepper - Meets The Rhythm Section [LP] / OJC338
Barney Kessel** - Kessel Plays Standards [LP] / OJC238
Bill Evans - Everybody Digs Bill Evans [LP] / OJC068
Bill Evans Trio - How My Heart Sings! [LP] / OJC369
Bill Evans Trio - Moon Beams / OJC434
Bill Evans Trio - Portrait In Jazz [LP] / OJC088
Bill Evans Trio - Sunday At The Village Vanguard [LP] / OJC140
Bill Evans Trio - Waltz For Debby [LP] / OJC210
Bobby Hutcherson - Solo / Quartet / OJC425
Cal Tjader - Cal Tjader's Latin Concert [LP] / OJC643
Cannonball Adderley Quintet - In San Francisco [LP] / OJC035
Cedar Walton - Plays Cedar Walton / OJC6002
Charles Mingus - Mingus At The Bohemia [LP] / OJC045
Charlie Parker - Bird At St. Nick's [LP] / OJC041
Charlie Parker - Bird On 52Nd Street [LP] / OJC114
Chet Baker - It Could Happen To You / OJC303
Coleman Hawkins - The Hawk Flies High [LP] / OJC027
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Jazz At Oberlin [LP] / OJC046
Eldridge/Gillespie/Terry - The Trumpet Kings At Montreux [LP] / OJC445
Eric Dolphy - Out There [LP] / OJC023
Eric Dolphy Quintet - Outward Bound [LP] / OJC022
Gene Ammons - Bad! Bossa Nova / OJC351
Gene Ammons - Blue Gene [LP] / OJC192
Gene Ammons - Boss Tenor [LP] / OJC297
Gerry Mulligan/Thelonious Monk - Mulligan Meets Monk / OJC301
Hampton Hawes Trio - The Séance [LP] / OJC455
Hank Jones - Just For Fun / OJC471
Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars - Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars, Vo / OJC266
Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars - Music For Lighthousekeeping / OJC636
J.A.T.P. All-Stars - Montreux '77 [LP] / OJC380
John Coltrane - Cotrane [LP] / OJC020
John Coltrane - Lush Life [LP] / OJC131
John Coltrane - Soutrane [LP] / OJC021
John Coltrane - The Last Trane [LP] / OJC394
John Coltrane - Thelonious Monk With John Coltrane [LP] / OJC039
John John Coltrane With The Red Garland Trio - Traneing In [LP] / OJC189
Kenny Burrell/John Coltrane - Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane [LP] / OJC300
Kenny Dorham - Quitet Kenny [LP] / OJC250
Lighthouse All Stars - In The Solo Spotlight / OJC451
McCoy Tyner - Sahara [LP] / OJC311
Miles Davis - Blue Haze [LP] / OJC093
Miles Davis - Miles Davis And Horns [LP] / OJC053
Miles Davis - Relaxin' With The Miles Davis Quintet [LP] / OJC190
Miles Davis All Stars - Walkin' [LP] / OJC213
Miles Davis And The Modern Jazz Giants - Bag's Groove / OJC245
Miles Davis Quintet - Cookin' With The Miles Davis Quintet [LP] / OJC128
Miles Davis Quintet - Steamin; With The Miles Davis Quintet [LP] / OJC391
Miles Davis Quintet - The New Miles Davis Quintet [LP] / OJC006
Miles Davis Quintet - Workin' With The Miles Davis Quintet / OJC296
Miles Davis/Milt Jackson - Quintet / Sextet [LP] / OJC012
Milt Jackson & Wes Montgomery - Bags Meets Wes! [LP] / OJC234
Milt Jackson And Strings - Feelings / OJC448
Ornette Coleman* - Something Else!!! Music Of Ornette Coleman [LP] / OJC163
Peter Erskine - Peter Erskine / OJC610
Prestige All Stars - Roots [LP] / OJC062
Red Garland Trio - Groovy [LP] / OJC061
Roy Eldridge - Happy Time / OJC628
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus [LP] / OJC291
Sonny Rollins - Sonny Rollins And The Contemporary Leader [LP] / OJC340
Sonny Rollins - Way Out West / OJC337
Sonny Rollins & The Modern Jazz Quartet - Sonny Rollins With The Modern Jazz Quartet [LP] / OJC011
Sonny Rollins Quartet - Tenor Madness [LP] / OJC124
The Herdsmen - The Herdsman Play Paris [LP] / OJC116
The Quintet - Jazz At Massey Hall [LP] / OJC044
Thelonious Monk - Plays Duke Ellington [LP] / OJC024
Thelonious Monk - The Unique Thelonious Monk [LP] / OJC064
Various Artists - Prestige Soul Masterpieces / OJC1201
Wes Montgomery - Incredible Jazz Guitar [LP] / OJC036
Yusef Lateef - Eastern Sounds [LP] / OJC612

 

*copies and pastes list into Amazon search engine*

 

It's a messy business. That list above is genuine but what is confusing is that Scorpio/whoever are also pressing and selling some of those titles. An example is a copy of Cal Tjaders Latin Concert I just bought last week. Uses the back artwork from the Fantasy days and was received 'new' into the shop but has scrawled kind of looking deadwax info. Shiny laminated cover (which OJCs never had, they were glossed but it was ink gloss not a laminate).
What usually gives it away is that these new 'OJCs' often arrive with the very similar Blue Note knock-offs and even this time a bunch of RCA fakes.
I'm amazed at the ubiquity of the whole fake-label vinyl situation.

 

Cal Tjader's Latin Concert is actually one of the newest reissues in that list, as is McCoy Tyner Sahara.

Concord used to sell their vinyl directly to only a couple of indie one-stop and distributors, including Scorpio and my company. Last year Concord's vinyl fulfillment center got bought out, so they opted to shift all their vinyl to Universal Music Group (who was already handling their CD's) to operate their vinyl distribution. So one might confuse Scorpio supplying OJC vinyl as Scorpio pressings, but they are not. With Universal handling distribution, these OJC vinyl titles have much broader exposure, so it's expected that within the past year, these OJC vinyl titles have been easier to find.

 

Thanks, good to know. Who's cutting these now then because the Cal Tjader is made from different parts to the 80s release?

 

I believe they were, or still are, pressing the OJC titles at Rainbo, but Concord started shifting more and more to United and possibly using both plants for pressing.

 

Thank you, it's good to get some clarity on this, the surge of jazz vinyl over the past few years has been puzzling.

 

I've read that too, but that's not what I hear. The OJC LPs with the CD mastering credits sound very similar to the CD, whereas the earlier OJCs can sound very different from the CD, which suggests different mastering.

I would find it hard to believe that in the late 80's, the same mastering engineer would do parallel masterings (analogue and digital) for LP and CD, since back then digital mastering for LPs was not considered inferior, and OJC LPs are regular cheap reissues, not audiophile products.

My personal conclusion is that the digitally mastered OJC LPs aren't worth getting, unless you prefer the look and feel of LPs.

 

This one is being pressed from the same parts cut by Steve and Kevin for the rare and expensive DCC vinyl edition. A fantastic high-end audiophile mastering for $12 brand new!

 

That's what I thought too. Also, I have at least 10 OJC titles and all of them sound good. I would highly doubt they are digital masterings. Yes, I do believe some after a certain cat # are digital.

Actually, IIRC our hosts spoke fairly highly of the OJC analog mastered titles for what they were. This and other recommendations on this forum prompted me to purchase a few of these titles. It's a great way to get introduced to a title that has great sound. If you love the title, you can always upgrade to an even better mastering (i.e., Music Matters, Analogue Productions).

 

Sometimes, these new OJC pressings can beat out an old RVG pressing. Case in point: I found a very nice looking blue label Prestige RVG pressing of Gene Ammons's "Boss Tenor". I already had a new OJC vinyl pressing of it so I was expecting an upgrade. You know what? I kept the new OJC and sold the old RVG LP. The OJC pressing blew the RVG pressing out of the water. This was the first time I did this (kept a new reissue over an original) since I started getting back into vinyl.

Edit to add: I've been told that Prestige did not use great pressing plants back in the day. There may be many cases where a new OJC is a better cut/pressing than an original.

 

Great point Kevin. I've found the same thing with Prestige.