Cheap small bookshelf speakers with high sensitivity

Atm i use a cheap but powerfull pa amp for my hifi system and it's so great having lot's of power, expecially when listening to hell freezes over with the classic hotel california, when hitting the sweet spot where the bass kicks in and changes from being loud to being loud and punchy(theres a volume where that happens), it sounds soooooo f....... good.

Only got 88db 44hz speakers with a 6½" bass but when the bass kicks in...... OMG

For the first time in 10 years i now have lot's of power, mabye more than my speaker can handle, so everything should be fine,right?, except there is one thing i havn't tried and that is bookshelf speaker with high sensitivity, i could use them with my 2x75 watt vintage amp (use the pa amp would be insane, to have such power risking playing one song at full power would scare me, i definitely would limit it a bit by using my vintage amp).

Theres just one big problem, finding cheap small bookshelf speakers with high sensitivity (and good bass)

I only know of one and that is klipsch, since cerwin vega really don't make any high sensitive bookshelf speakers for not a lot of money and i think klipsch would beat cerwin vega every time in sound quality.

Klipsch Reference R-51-M is within my price range, spec are 93 db 8 ohm and 85/340 watt power handling, so if i want to try high sensitive speakers with a normal powerfull amp instead of normal sensitivity speakers and a power amp, im limited to klipsch?

Im of course not thing of pa speakers,only hifi speakers, mabye something made for small under 10 watt pr channel tube amps that really can make the sound dynamic,loud despite having under 10 watt pr channel.

It's how much different the sound,experince would be if i use powerfull speakers with a normal amp instead of normal speakers and a power amp im curious about knowing, i have a few time heard people say high sensitive speakers are often more dynamic than normal sensitive speakers do to the higher sensitivity.

Any with experience with normal hifi speakers with a power amp and sensitive speaker with a normal "small" amp?

 

There's few which are somewhat full range which are efficient and small. Dynaco's A 25, the AR4 are among them. Klipsch's Heresy is somewhat small for it's type.

 

Can you please define the word 'cheap' Please.

 

To BIG

 

The same price as Klipsch Reference R-51-M, Mission LX-2, Q Acoustics 2020i,3010i, cerwin vega xls-6,wharfedale diamond 220, cambridge sx-50.......

 

I read Klipsch are about 3dB less sensitive than advertised.

 

It's BIG or subwoofers or inefficient. If you want anything close to full range. Or forget about much below 80 hertz, or full low bass. In the early days of HiFi, cornerhorns were necessity for full range sound, amplifiers were very small (30 watts a luxury). The laws of physics apply. I also understand your living quarters are smaller where you live. The price you often pay for efficiency and low power amplifiers, is larger loudspeakers to get that efficiency. Or sacrifice the low bass. Smaller speakers with full range bass equals usually the need for higher powered amplifiers as efficiency must often be traded.

Klipsch tends to be the best common efficient speaker on the market, which is commonly available, the Heritage series is still their best speakers, which the legend was based on. The Dynaco A 25 for me is the smallest efficient speaker which meets my needs, and gives me accurate sound, images well, and OK bass, accurate midrange, and nice sweet treble. These were favorites with apartment dwellers and college dorm dwellers. I also live in a space challenged environment.

 

Yes, here is the rb-15 also rated at 93 db Klipsch RB-15 loudspeaker Measurements

Theres is just a few hifi speakers or manufactures that makes high sensitive speaker so it's easier to choose an amp not based on watt but on features and sound quality.

 

Klipsch heresy
Way to big, way to expensive.

I didn't said anything about full range speakers, my bookshelf speaker (just to use them), go down to 44hz and with edm sounds really good, can be loud an punchy, they are no bigger than the dali zensor 3, the Monitor audio BX2's, the Elac debut 6's are slightly bigger.

They are just not as loud as Klipsch Reference R-51-M or have the bass as buchardt S300 (danish high end speakers for a very reasonable price 4 ohm,88db 6" woofer goes down to 33hz and they don't need a subwoofer all who review them agree, the speakers don't need a subwoofer) or have the loud (and fairly deep) bass like som big 2.1 speakers from edifier,logitech (thx) which are pretty loud,in the bass.

I think most people have a wrong preception of good bass, it's like people only can relate to good bass if they god down to under 40hz and a 8" woofer or bigger and minimum as big as a pair of yamaha hs8/80 to relate to something most people know.

Good bass doesn't relate to woofer size and how low it can go, as with amps that sound good doesn't have anything to do with a lot of watt (or a good handling car doesn't have anything to do with the amount of horse power the engine has), many low powered amps can sound good even when they have no more than 50 watt pr channel in 8 ohm.

Many prefer small tube amps or a nad 3020 or the newer digital Nad D3020, some only have or want small bookshelf speakers no bigger than the dali zensor 3, Kef Q150, Monitor audio bronze 2, Q Acoustics concept 40, finding such speaker for not a lot of money with high sensitivity, lets' say 93db or above where 93db is in the low end for high sensitive speakers, mabye 92 db speakers can be refered to as high sensitive speakers, but in no way as high as pa speakers or those hifi speakers that are expensive and made to be use with lowered tube amps to make music loud and dynamic almost as if they where at a live concert.

 

If the Buchardt speakers are available in the USA, and I have a chance to hear them, I will. I love Danish speaker drivers and speaker systems a lot, some of the finest in the world. I also listen to a wide range of music, including Classical. I am very finicky about my audio quality, and usually use 40-50 watt/channel amplifiers. And conservatively built and engineered. PA speakers for me are mainly not up to my needs. KEF is likable, but in my case, 4 ohm loads are not always a good thing. I am also not a bass head either. I demand honest, accurate sound, midrange suckout not acceptable. I need a speaker which stays out of the way of my music. Danish speakers I have heard also do that very well. A 15 watt amp for me does not have enough dynamic headroom either unless I am using 95 db/1 watt/1 meter efficiency or higher speakers. Which for me limits my speaker options. Many of the speakers for that job, require corners, and are very large in a smaller house. I need flat, accurate, and honest. Low distortion. Plenty of volume. Must sound great with every kind of music known to man. Acoustic, electric, or electronic.

 

Is this some sort of a psychic test? What speakers do you have now? What amps do you have now?
-Bill

 

The buchardt s400 for many sounds better than the s300 no surprise (2 versions) also more expensive again no surprise. S400 for some sound better then the Dynaudio Special Forty (watch the thomas stereo video, second video)

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Truth & Beauty: Buchardt S300 MkII SE

S400
Buchardt S400 speakers review

The Buchardt S400 Review! Big, Badass Sound!

 

What do you mean by some sort of a psychic test ?

I have a Technics SU-8600 amp with 2x75 watt in 8 ohm (1khz), what happens with a smallish amp trying to play loud is that it gets harsher,more agressive in the highs, often when playing loud and the highs doesn't sound soft it's because of a weak amp that plays above it's limit.

I can do that with my technics amp without the sound being super loud, just loud (my speaker can handle more power than 75watt).

Theres only a very few cheap hifi speakers with high sensitivity one of them being klipsch but they don't have to much deep bass (but louder than what i have).

I wanted to experience what more power does for my listening experince, i choose a bigger amp (6db more headroom) a cheap pa amp that i easily could get,find and then i would have more power.

It's fantastic having so much more power then i need, since the highs now are just loud not agressive,harsh or anything that indicates the amp is being pushed above it's limit also when i play edm or something like the SuperBass record by ray brown i have a lot more power for the bass to sound clean and controlled, even when both amps play about the same level (loud) the pa amp i have (even when it's cheap) is more clean and controlled since it's not close to it's limit, my technics amp does sound a bit more warmer in the bass.

I now know it's a fantastic thing to have all the power you could ever imagine you would need, so the sound is always clean and controlled.

I have never had someting like high sensitive hifi bookshelf speakers like klipsch and i didn't know any other speakers,manufactures then cerwin vega that makes cheap speakers with high sensitivity (mostly cv makes floorstand speakers not so much bookshelf speakers).

I am therefor interested in knowing how the music would be if i have high sensitive speakers, how it would effect the dynamic of the sound and how the bass would be for my listening experience having speakers, let's call them speakers designed to play really loud without being pa speakers, would do for me, as already mentioned i have heard a few people say speakers with high sensitivity is more dynamic.

I also just wanted to know what high sensitivity hifi speaker there is, since i can't think of anything besides klipsch,cerwin vega then pa speakers,those type of speakers im not interested in.

My speakers http://www.mission.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Mission-QX-2-Hi-Fi-choice-group-test-winner.pdf

 

Upgrade the amplifier to something with more power. Likely for you the most practical option.

 

Hoffman's Iron Law:

1) Bass Extension

2) Efficiency

3) Small Enclosure

You can only have two of these things.

So if you want efficiency and a small box, it will have no bass.

 

Considered one of Triangle's bookshelf speakers'—for example, the Triangle Titus EZ—90 dB.

Congrats, by the way. As far as I know, IAG Group does not sell their Mission brand in the U.S.
Maybe PSB noticed. Check out the new PSB Alpha P5.

 

Facts with Klipsch Heritage. These drivers have no foam. Crossover caps every 20 years. If you don't abuse them, they'll last 60 years or more. Yes, not cheap. Never small. But a lifetime purchase. I could buy a pair of Heresy, Heresy II, or Heresy III, drive them carefully, never abuse them, use them for another 35 years, have practically no issues ever my entire lifespan on earth.

My Dynaco A 25 pair I am listening to right now, are 1972-1975 era, I listen to these every day. Crossover caps are the only repairs I have ever done. I play these sometimes as much as 4-5 hours a day, and often, they've never sounded bad, nor failed me even once.

Consider this fact, your Bang & Olufsen older speakers are not unlike Dynaco A 25, and they sound similar, they're common and cheap, no foam surrounds. And nice ones where you are, are likely easily had. don't count those out. They in good order, sound good, durable and reliable when cared for and not abused, they're efficient too often. and under 50 W/PC do fine. And NAD 3020 and similar drive them fine in small to medium sized spaces. They're not too big either. And beautiful furniture too. Don't count them out. I like them myself. Some common sense from someone who lives in small spaces, and frugally. They sound great on every musical genre you can ever want to hear, and a nice option.

I live more like an old school European. What things I have, I like them to be durable, function well for many years, and serve me well, reliably for many years. I also tend to use them as long as they will last. I dislike throwaway anything. On my modest income, this gives me the best quality of life, and the least stress. I dislike disposable fads. Many Europeans and I are not alike from my generation. I give you this advice from this mindset.

 

Get some powered monitors. Adam TV7’s ($500/pr.) will rock your world.

 

And they still have no bass.

 

Linn Tukans are one of my favs, but i don't know the specs offhand.

 

That's because physics says it's impossible (Google "Hoffman's Iron Law" as @misterdecibel said). Trust me, I'm a loudspeaker design engineer, I only lie to the marketing department. Small and more efficient means less bass...and also more expensive because higher sensitivity generally means a beefier magnet which costs $¥€₽£. So yes Cerwin-Vega made speakers that were quite sensitive and had some bass and the cabinets were big. Klipsch speakers do seem to be more sensitive than others though I believe their sensitivity specs to be exaggerated.*

If you want efficient bookshelf speakers, you must have a sub, or darn big "bookshelf" speakers. Some links that might be of interest: DIY SOUND GROUP
Loudspeakers - diyAudio
High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
Now, are you actually putting these in bookshelves or a desktop? Because if not, then slim towers could be made efficient with decent bass.

*Speakers sensitivity specs-not just Klipsch!-are often exaggerated or outright lies, sometimes inflated by adding together two speakers working at the same time plus some "room gain" factor. And you certainly CANNOT compare one brand to another, sorry, their measurement setups are never the same nor is the amount their marketing departments lie. Speaker power handling ratings, meanwhile, are just useless dribble, and again absolutely not comparable brand versus brand.

 

Some say that

 

Linn Tukan loudspeaker Specifications

To enhanced midrange and not a lot of bass under 200hz and 87db sensitivity.

 

My point in high sensitive bookshelf speakers is to try to hear if high sensitive speakers would somehow give anything comapred to my current speakers and 2x300 watt also having really difficult finding high sensitive speaker for not a lot of money, if i don't want pa speakers. (the same goes for hifi amps with a lot of power)

Something like Triangle Titus EZ might have higher sensitivity but really not an upgrade, meaning on paper it's only 2db more power equal to about 100 watt instead of 75 watt pr channel with my current speakers and is more expensive than what i have.

As i already mentioned i have never tried speakers with high sensitivity ( a world i really use a lot in this thread ), one think by having sensitive speakers i havn't mentioned is that i can use my Technics SU-8600 and still have more power than i need, than i could return my pa amp.

Nothing wrong with my pa amp, just found out having a lot power is what i need after 10 years of only having a medium loud hifi system (except for yamaha hs7/8 which i had problems with that made me sell them,hs 8 was just to big on my desk)

It's kind of this normal speakers with a powerfull amp vs high sensitive speakers and a normal powerfull amp

My technics amp sound good but needs more power to get me up there where it's loud those few times i like to play one song loud or edm at medium levels with a lot of energy in the bass (which my technics amps actually does better than playing really loud), more sensitive speakers.

 

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