Chicago appreciation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jwb1231970, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. CybrKhatru

    CybrKhatru Music is life.

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    For the past two years or so, I've been playing gigs with Kenny Cetera, Peter's younger brother... doing a Chicago Experience tribute. It's been tons of fun, and I hope one day some of the former members sit in with us! (Apparently Danny and Peter have both sat in at least once, on separate occasions.)

    If forced to choose, I think Chicago V is my favorite album of theirs. I love how stylistically varied it is!
     
  2. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I really cannot decide which of the three double albums (CTA, II and VII) is considered their best album and that's why in the other thread "Artist's Double Album is their Best Work",
    I posted all three of them.
     
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  3. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I found "Chicago V" as a very non-commercial album except for "Saturday In The Park". To me, it's still an experimental album like the first three double albums but in a more concise single-album format.
     
  4. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    The success of the band lies primarily in having a pretty deep songwriting pool to draw from. Like a lot of bands who have success that lasts more than a couple of albums, they had other writers to pick up the slack when necessary. Peter Cetera didn't even write a song on the first album, but was responsible for their biggest hits on VII, X and XI. Lee Loughnane and Danny Seraphine were writing hits on those later albums as well when Lamm and Pankow were drying up.

    "Three distinctive voices" probably didn't add anything to their success, and if anything, held them back as the band moved into the period where instant recognition on the radio became more important. Which is why you saw the move to having Cetera become 'the voice' of the band.

    Super-talented guitarist? I love Kath but A) they were all equally talented and B) I don't remember much of anyone anyone rushing out to buy Chicago records to hear what great riffs Terry Kath was coming up with next. It's not like he was Jimi Hendrix or Eddie van Halen. He was just another member of the faceless band. Terry was great, but he has been a bit 'over deified' as of late, IMO.
     
  5. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    I think Jimmy Pankow is the most underrated member of the band, principally responsible for all of their horn arrangements, not to mention composer of some of their best work, most notably, Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon.
     
  6. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Dialog was pretty radio-friendly as well.
     
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  7. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    But I don't find it as a very catchy song. The arrangement and the musicianship are very good though.
     
  8. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    They are all great in their own ways, but the first two have weak tracks, IMO, where VII does not. Although I get that the jazz instrumentals on side 1 aren't going to be for everybody.

    I know people love CTA, but "Free Form Guitar" and "Liberation" are really just filler to me. And on II, "It Better End Soon" is OK, but doesn't really hold up as "classic" material to me. I think all the first 3 albums might have been better as singles where I think VII is a better album than it would have been as a single because it is longer and has the diversity of sounds and songs that it has.

    But that's all just my opinion, obviously.
     
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  9. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Chicago VII would be more appropriate to be considered as their "Sgt. Pepper".
     
  10. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    It was one of their more minor hits during this period. I think it was a hit in SPITE of itself. I love the song, but doesn't necessarily jump out to me as being a hit single. It got the nod because there really isn't another song on V that could have been the second single. I love that album, BTW, but it's not filled with hit radio tunes, for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  11. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    I don't see the analogy.
     
  12. tmwlng

    tmwlng Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Another thing I like about Chicago is, in addition to the talents of Kath, Cetera, Lamm and Seraphine, I've always enjoyed some of the songs Pankow sang lead on. He had a sort of Dennis Wilson thing going on there. I've always liked Chicago but only recently have I begun acquiring the CD's after their debut. I look forward to listening to them in full.

     
  13. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    You mean besides Saturday in the Park?
     
  14. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Yes. That's why just before you posted this I edited my post to read "the second single".

    I figured somebody would point this out if I didn't, but you were too quick. :)
     
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  15. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    One of the things I loved about Chicago early on was the fact that they made these ambitious double albums, which required the listener to make the effort to go on this extended journey and really let it grow on them. I agree with your comments on "Free Form Guitar" and less so in the case of "Liberation." But "It Better End Soon" (and "Memories Of Love") was an example of a song that paid off after repeated listenings. The same was true for "An Hour In The Shower" and "Man vs. Man" on the third album. Those are now some of my favorites tracks. With VII, I'm afraid, I was already growing weary of Chicago and never really invested the time in this one, although I do like it. But tracks like "Song of the Evergreens" and "Byblos" never really grabbed me. I think I'll give it another spin now. :)
     
  16. mbrownp1

    mbrownp1 Forum Resident

    This one made me stop and think. I have never heard anyone say this. And I have never given him much credit as a bass player. But thinking about the absolutely breathtaking opening to "I'm a Man", I'll have to give this one some serious consideration.
     
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  17. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    I love that they made those ambitious double albums too. It's just that I don't find that every track always worked.

    "Memories of Love" I've always liked, but I'm a sucker for orchestrated/classical pieces like this on rock albums. I never could get into "An Hour In The Shower". No matter how many times I listen to it, it just sounds like filler to me. Just can't get into a guy singing about Spam, I guess. The whole "Elegy" thing always was a bit of a 'meh' for me, but I have an entirely new appreciation for it since the release of the Quadio version.

    "Song of the Evergreens" and "Byblos" are two of my favorites on that album. Although I always wondered why they chose Lee Loughnane to sing the lead on "Evergreens" since he really only sounds like a weaker-voiced version of Kath anyway.
     
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  18. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    I really like Pankow's voice on "You Are On My Mind". Less so on this track, but that might just be because I don't think it's really a very good song.
     
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  19. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Not sure I'm with you about "I'm A Man", but there is some GREAT bass playing going on here:
     
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  20. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Agreed that the lyrics are throwaway on "Hour," though amusing in a sort of "A Day In The Life" kind of way. But what I love is the arrangement, the changes that take place, when Terry's guitar riff kicks in in the faster middle with the swinging horns, and his soulful singing, like the final verse: "Join meee-EEE in my hour in the showeeerrr."



    re: Elegy:
    Approaching Storm: once I caught on to the fact that this is your classic jazz-style improv where each member of the band gets to play a number of bars, I dug it in that spirit.
    Man vs. Man: this is the album climax, the icing on the cake, like the final chords of Won't Get Fooled Again.​
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  21. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Hmmmm.... it has its charms, I suppose. But if I had to make a list of the dozen or so songs Kath wrote for Chicago, this one would probably rank above only "Free Form Guitar" on the list. You cut down III to a single disc, and this has gotta be the first to go?
     
  22. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Ah, but that's what makes these records special, the fact that they are double albums and contain these deeper cuts. Cutting III down to a single album would be a crime IMO, turning it into something like V or VI, which are lesser works.

    I'll make a deal with you: you work on appreciating III more and I'll work on VII. ;)
     
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  23. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Always thought it was a pretty obvious double entendre. When he's on tour he can't get his "sweet sweet Spam" -- ie, his girlfriend at home. ("I only love one brand, and I can't find it, way out here"). So he steps into the shower and.....uh, does something. Kinda lets the girl know he's behaving, doesn't it?

    That has to be what it's about-- after all, since when was actual Spam not available in some places, and there only IS one brand of it.
     
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  24. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    I always got the jazz-style improv of the piece, but it always just sounded to me that was something they got a little bit in over their head on. They were a "rock band with horns", not really a jazz band. And very often in the early days Pankow would seemingly come up with the most dissonant chords for the horns to play just for the sake of being dissonant. He wasn't really saying anything except "look how CRAAAAZY we are, man!" perhaps.

    But, again, in Quad it does make more sense to me now. Or at least I enjoy it much more.

    They did do jazz improv much better on VII though, IMO. I think they were both more mature musicians at this point and the Brazilian style they were going for suited them better.
     
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  25. videoman

    videoman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lake Tahoe, NV
    Haha! I like the deal. But I'll have to say I've listened all of these albums countless times over the years. One of my all time favorite bands. I don't know that my appreciation is going to change much at this point. And III is what it is. They took the double-album thing one album too far. CTA and II work really well. This one? Not so much. The first disc is great. The second one---quite spotty. Squeeze "Lowdown" into Side 1 somewhere and the album would have been a total classic, IMO.
     

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