Oh, you make perfect sense. It's just that I don't adhere to the "adding a group" concept. Rarely* does a favorite band/artist of mine have a catalogue that makes me need to own everything. *If the catalogue is large, it's more likely that I won't like everything, therefore I won't own everything.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what the horns are doing on those parts is called a sforzando crescendo.
Probably why collection is not huge. I'm picky about the new additions of my collection. Depending on how large that catalogue is but... It usually takes me about a week (sometimes less) of listening to just one artist 24/7 to know if I'm going to add them to my collection. Sometimes I get burned out by the 3rd day (then I don't make the whole week). Darryl
Their first and second are the best for me...my faves. But still love the rest through V...Saturday In The Park is a fave track on that. Then I lost the thread...
I would agree that the loss of Kath was a devastating blow, but I think the decline of Robert Lamm was even a bigger deal.
In my opinion, that's a wrong choice for an introductory CD album on Chicago. You should look for GROUP PORTRAIT 4 CD set (Columbia Columbia – C4K 47416, Legacy – C4K 47416 ) for a more representative collection of hits and deep album tracks of the original CHICAGO, and also for its much superior sound quality and better liner notes.
I love this thread (like all Chicago threads on this forum) jwb1231970 at least ten thoughts below : 1) I love Chicago, always have, always will, but there is no doubt that the 1969-1977 catalog is what keeps me coming back. 2) That said, I still think Hot Streets and Chicago 13 could have made one solid (DD on guitar/Phil Ramone production) LP. My fantasy Chicago Hot Streets album a.k.a. best of Hot Streets & 13: Side One (21:38) Alive Again (James Pankow) 4:12 Peter and Donnie Mama Take (Peter Cetera) 4:14 Peter Love Was New (Robert Lamm) 3:33 Robert No Tell Lover (Peter Cetera/Lee Loughnane/Daniel Seraphine) 4:16 Peter Hot Streets (Robert Lamm) 5:23 Robert Side Two (21:34) Little Miss Lovin' (Peter Cetera) 4:36 Peter Reruns (Robert Lamm) 4:29 Robert Life is What It Is (Laudir de Oliveira/Marcos Valle) 4:37 Peter Window Dreamin' (Lee Loughnane/Walter Parazaider) 4:11 Peter Show Me the Way (Daniel Seraphine/David Wolinski) 3:41 Robert 3) Then if one tinkers with Chicago XIV, replacing the three weakest songs (Where Did the Lovin' Go, Hold On, and Birthday Boy) with Doin' Business, Soldier of Fortune, and Practical Man, it makes for a solid follow-up. My fantasy Chicago XIV album: Side One (18:32) Manipulation (Robert Lamm) 3:46 Robert Thunder and Lightning (R. Lamm/D. Seraphine/P. Cetera) 3:34 Peter/Robert Overnight Cafe (Peter Cetera) 4:21 Peter I'd Rather Be Rich (Robert Lamm) 3:08 Robert Song for You (Peter Cetera) 3:43 Peter Side Two (18:29) Doin' Business (Robert Lamm) 3:32 Robert Upon Arrival (Peter Cetera/Robert Lamm) 3:50 Peter/Robert Practical Man (Peter Cetera) 3:53 Peter (I know it is a song from his solo debut, but it has horns!) Soldier of Fortune (Robert Lamm) 3:51 Robert The American Dream (James Pankow) 3:23 Peter 4) Also, I would take the best of Chicago XVI and Chicago XVII if the band would have recorded the songs closer to their live sound (listen on YT to the 1982 and 1984 concert performances of the XVI and XVII songs, as examples) for a decent LP. youtube.com/watch?v=8L9FjTZV8eQ&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=NkNDfzlrKcY&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=aiXWvqVVEdM&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=wb1KvP-39F0&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=Hq362rRHP8I&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=rDFkdNmoYW8&fmt=18 youtube.com/watch?v=sh5xowBO8A4&fmt=18 5) The 1986-2016 group and solo catalog is a rough journey. My five favorite albums from this period are: Night & Day Big Band Chicago XXV: The Christmas Album re-issued with six additional songs as What’s It Gonna Be, Santa? Robert Lamm's Subtlety & Passion Chicago XXXIII: O Christmas Tree Chicago XXXVI: Now Also, there a bunch of additional songs from this era that I enjoy (I would enjoy this as a mix CD): 1986 Glory of Love (Cetera/DF/Diane Nini) 4:24 Peter 1986 Only Love Knows Why (Cetera/George Bitzer/Michael Omartian) 4:29 Peter 1986 Free Flight (Pankow) 0:25 instrumental 1986 When Will the World Be Like Lovers (Lamm/DF/Tom Keane) 4:22 Robert, Bill, and Jason 1988 I Stand Up (Lamm/Gerard McMahon) 4:06 Robert 1988 One Good Woman (Cetera/Patrick Leonard) 4:34 Peter 1988 Heaven Help This Lonely Man (Cetera/Patrick Leonard) 4:24 Peter 1988 Scheherazade (Cetera/Patrick Leonard/Diane Nini) 5:27 Peter with Madonna 1988 One More Story (Cetera/Patrick Leonard) 3:40 Peter 1991 One from the Heart (Lamm/Gerard McMahon) 4:43 Robert 1991 Only Time Can Heal the Wounded (Lamm/Gerard McMahon) 4:43 Robert 1991 God Save the Queen (James Pankow/Jason Scheff) 4:20 Bill 1992 Restless Heart (Cetera/Andy Hill) 4:09 Peter 1992 Even a Fool Can See (Cetera/Mark Goldenberg) 4:31 Peter 1992 World Falling Down (Cetera/Andy Hill) 5:00 Peter 1993 Plaid (Lamm/Bill Champlin/Greg Mathieson) 5:00 Bill 1993 All the Years (Lamm/Bruce Gaitsch) 4:16 Robert/4:44 (solo) 1993 Sleeping in the Middle of the Bed (Lamm/John McCurry) 4:46 Robert/4:31 (solo) 1993 My Neighborhood (Lamm/Bill Gable) 4:43/4:21 Robert 1999 Sacha (Lamm) 4:06 Robert 1999 Swept Away (Lamm/Bruce Gaitsch) 4:17 Robert with Phoebe Snow 1999 Sad Old House (Lamm/Bill Champlin) 3:39 Robert 2001 Theme from a Love Dream (Lamm/Keith Howland/Tris Imboden) 7:29 instrumental 2001 Inching Towards...? (Lamm/Keith Howland/Tris Imboden) 5:22 instrumental 2006 Heaven in My Eyes (Lamm/John Van Eps) 3:51 Robert 2008 The Possibility of Life (Lamm) 4:15 Robert 2008 Send Rain (Lamm) 4:00 Robert 2008 Haute Girl (Lamm/John Van Eps) 3:36 Robert 2012 4 Bells (Lamm) 2:58 Robert 2012 Out of the Blue (Lamm/Trent Gardner) 3:32 Robert 2012 Living Proof (Lamm/Trent Gardner) 4:20 Robert 6) On a side note, to give perspective, I do not think every song the band (group/solo) recorded before 1982 is golden. Here is my list of bottom shelf stuff from those years (I would not enjoy this as a mix CD ): The Road (Terry Kath) 3:10 Peter Some of What (Robert Lamm) 2:20 Robert The Door (Robert Lamm) 3:12 Robert Hideaway (Peter Cetera) 4:47 Peter You Get It Up (Robert Lamm) 3:34 group The Greatest Love On Earth (Daniel Seraphine/David Wolinski) 3:18 Peter Take a Chance (Lee Loughnane/Lawrence Wagner) 4:45 Donnie Must Have Been Crazy (Donnie Dacus) 3:25 Donnie Paradise Alley (Robert Lamm) 3:39 Donnie Aloha Mama (Daniel Seraphine/David Wolinski) 4:10 Peter Birthday Boy (Daniel Seraphine/David Wolinski) 4:55 Peter Loser with a Broken Heart (Peter Cetera) 4:41 Peter Where Did the Lovin' Go (Peter Cetera) 4:07 Peter Hold On (Peter Cetera) 4:15 Peter Live It Up (James Pankow) 3:23 Peter Livin' in the Limelight (Peter Cetera) 4:22 Peter How Many Times (Peter Cetera) 4:23 Peter Holy Moly (Peter Cetera) 4:27 Peter Mona Mona (Peter Cetera) 3:21 Peter I Can Feel It (Peter Cetera/Carl Wilson/Ricky Fataar) 3:11 Peter 7) I know this is wishful thinking, but I still look forward to the following lineup recording together again: Robert Lamm, Peter Cetera, Daniel Seraphine, Chris Pinnick, Laudir de Oliveira, James Pankow, Lee Loughnane, and Walter Parazaider 8) A nutty thought: Some combination of Ray Herrmann, Larry Klimas, Nick Lane, Lee Thornburg may be the permanent Chicago concert horn section, if Robert chooses to continue touring after Jimmy, Lee, and Walt officially retire. 9) I would love to see these twelve unissued (if these were even recorded) songs on a Chicago studio archives CD someday: What’s On Your Mind (Lamm) copyright 12/31/69, 6/18/70, 2/5/79, 4/13/81 Thinking of You (Cetera) copyright 2/2/73 The Sound of My Voice (Lamm) copyright 2/9/73, 5/29/73 Winter in the Rockies (Cetera) copyright 3/2/73 Love is in Her Eyes (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 Sing to the New Day (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 Losers in Love (Seraphine/David "Hawk" Wolinski) copyright 8/14/79 Love is a Simple Thing (Lamm/Marcos Valle) copyright 11/2/79 Home to You (Cetera) copyright 1/6/81 Sundown (Cetera) copyright 1/6/81 Can I Show You? (Seraphine/David "Hawk" Wolinski) copyright 2/17/81 (1980) Call Me Back Tomorrow (Lamm/Marty Grebb) copyright 4/3/81 10) Did I mention I love this band...
any speculation why Pankow has contributed very little if any material of substance in quite a while? is he just content to just collect royalties and relax? (He has certainly earned it, IMHO).
An excellent question, Humbuster . I have wondered that for many years, as well. After Lamm, and along with Cetera, he was a prolific songwriter in the band until the mid-1980's, and he only has one issued co-write in this century (Love Lives On w/Scheff): James Pankow’s songs: unissued as of 2017 Liberation (Pankow) copyright 8/4/69 Make Me Smile (Pankow) copyright 1/29/70 So Much to Say, So Much to Give (Pankow) copyright 1/29/70 West Virginia Fantasies (Pankow) copyright 1/30/70 Colour My World (Pankow) copyright 1/30/70 To Be Free (Pankow) copyright 1/30/70 Now More than Ever (Pankow) copyright 1/30/70 Anxiety’s Moment (Pankow) copyright 1/20/71 Movin’ In (Pankow) copyright 1/20/71 Canon (Pankow) copyright 4/16/71 Once Upon a Time… (Pankow) copyright 4/16/71 Progress? (Pankow/James William Guercio) copyright 4/16/71 The Approaching Storm (Pankow) copyright 4/16/71 Man vs. Man: The End (Pankow) copyright 4/16/71 Now That You’ve Gone (Pankow) copyright 8/9/72 Just You ‘n’ Me (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 Love is in Her Eyes (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 Sing to the New Day (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 What’s This World Comin’ To (Pankow) copyright 3/2/73 Feelin’ Stronger Everyday (Pankow/Cetera) copyright 6/11/73 (I’ve Been) Searchin’ So Long (Pankow) copyright 3/25/74 Mongonucleosis (Pankow) copyright 4/8/74 Brand New Love Affair (Pankow) copyright 3/27/75 Old Days (Pankow) copyright 3/27/75 Skin Tight (Pankow) copyright 7/14/76 You Are On My Mind (Pankow) copyright 7/14/76 Till the End of Time (Pankow) copyright 1977 Wish I Could Fly (Pankow) copyright Alive Again (Pankow) copyright Run Away (Pankow) copyright 8/7/79 The American Dream (Pankow) copyright 7/17/80 Live It Up (Pankow) copyright Follow Me (Pankow/David Foster) copyright 5/26/82 What Can I Say? (Pankow/David Foster) copyright 5/26/82 Bad Advice (Pankow/Cetera/David Foster) copyright 5/26/82 Once in a Lifetime (Pankow) copyright 5/14/84 Only You (Pankow/David Foster) copyright 6/11/84 American Flyer (Pankow/Carmen Grillo) copyright 1/7/85 (1984) One More Day (Pankow/Carmen Grillo) copyright 9/23/86 God Save the Queen (Pankow/Jason Scheff) copyright 1/29/91 (1990) Love is Forever (Pankow/Lamm) copyright 8/20/93 Here with Me (Pankow/Greg O’Connor/Lamm) copyright 5/31/94 The Only One (Pankow/Greg O’Connor) copyright 4/22/97 (1996) Show Me a Sign (Pankow/Greg O’Connor) copyright 3/12/98 Everlasting Love (Pankow/Greg O’Connor) copyright (1999)
I really like your Hot streets/13 combo album. I made that playlist and it flows very well. The only other songs from those two albums that I care about are "Street Player" and "Gone , Long Gone". I just tacked them on the end. Thanks for the idea.
Depends on when you think Lamm declined. You could argue that it already happened halfway through the Kath era-- "Saturday in the Park" was his last real hit, and the newest song of his that they still play. I'd say he peaked as a songwriter on VI and his songs were far less great afterward. He got a second wind in the '80s/90s, but most of those songs didn't go to Chicago.
I would pretty much agree with your timeline. At his best, Lamm's songs gave them both AM/FM airplay and credibility. With his decline Cetera became the main voice in the band, at least on the radio, and the direction of the group slowly began to change.
To begin with, there are only very few listenable album tracks on 13 but it's a nice attempt of yours to make a fantasy album tracks combining "Hot Streets" and "Chicago 13." It's like making an album with really good tracks (mostly from "Hot Streets" and combining them with really bad tracks (from "Chicago 13") just for the purpose of making a 10-track single album.. In my opinion, "Hot Streets" is a much better album than "Chicago 13." I would replace the bad tracks such as "Little Miss Lovin'" (from "Hot Streets") and "Window Dreamin'" (from 13) with the best 13 track, "Street Player" and replace the annoying "Reruns" (from 13) with the more listenable "Gone Long Gone" (from "Hot Streets) or the Tijuana Brass sound-alike track "Closer To You" (an outtake from "Hot Streets"). I agree with your list of Chicago's worst tracks with the exception of two tracks (one from "Chicago II" and one from "Chicago X." To me, "The Road" is a very melodic song written by Kath with Cetera's voice in mind. It is actually one of the better songs on the albums's Side One. It's a dynamic song which puts Cetera's voice to the test. On the other hand, "You get It Up" is the least desirable song on "Chicago X," but I like it more each day, gradually like it more now than when I first heard it just because of the Kath's guitar solo on the track which makes the song interesting and very listenable.
Gotta really disagree on "Hideaway," I think that one's great-- finally another heavy-riff guitar song in the Purples vein. Also gives the lie to anyone who thinks Cetera only wrote ballads.
Window Dreamin' is bad, really bad. I find little to like on 13. Hideaway rocks. They should've issued that as a single, instead of Brand New Love Affair. Brand New Love Affair was more of a crooner-ballad, which really wasn't in fashion then. Hideaway would've showed Chicago's rockin' style.
Folks should listen to Robert Lamm's solo album Subtlety & Passion to hear what Chicago should have sounded like in the 21st century.
Agreed. It is a masterful work. But to characterize what Chicago should sound like, I would combine that album with, "The Howland Imboden Project." A collaboration of the current Chicago guitarist and drummer, Kieth Howland and Tris Imboden. Additionally, most of the rest of the current members of Chicago all appear on the album. Kieth is a great guitarist and Tris shows his chops, demonstrating far more complex and dynamic stuff than he is relegated to with current Chicago. Check it out on YouTube, both the studio and live tracks. The top songs for me include, Cement Mixer, Sharp Funk 5, Inching Towards...?, (James Pankow multi dimensional solos — love the ending ala Mother, Chicago III). I recall reading Robert Lamm remarking in an interview, that making this album with Kieth and Tris reminded him of what making an album with a band is supposed to be like.
How did I overlook the hard rockin' "Hideaway" from Hep's list? Yes, it's a hard rockin' album track with a heavy use of aggressive vocals, distorted electric guitars, bass guitar, and drums. Who says the only thing that Peter Cetera ever did was to write soft ballads? He can be soft but if he chooses to rock, he rocks harder than any of his Chicago bandmates.
Thanks TimM Funny you should mention Street Player and Gone Long Gone. In my fantasy land, they are both on non-LP singles issued in 1979 with the 7" having the Street Player 4:22 edit: My fantasy Chicago 1979 first non-LP single Street Player (Daniel Seraphine/David Wolinski) 4:22 Peter/Run Away (James Pankow) 4:18 Peter and Donnie My fantasy Chicago 1979 second non-LP single Gone Long Gone (Peter Cetera) 4:00 Peter/Ain’t It Time (Donnie Dacus/Daniel Seraphine/Warner Schwebke) 4:15 Donnie Also, with regards to comments on "Hideaway", I love Chicago's heavier sounds and Kath sounds great on just about everything, but I have never been able get past the feeling that this song was a jam and PC shouted out some words and said "that's good enough". And yes, I am aware that I like "Little Miss Lovin'". I am confused by this possible contradiction also.