CHICAGO remasters Nov. 5

Anyone pick up the next two Chicago remasters?

 

You must think we're(I'm)crazy...

ED

 

LOL...

 

No. Yes, there are problems with the sound, but some others maintain that the sound of the remasters match the original LPs.

You can't assume EVERYONE here thinks exactly alike.

 

I was planning on getting these. Funny though, Chicago's and Rhino's website do not even mention their release. Not one word.

So they are available? I'll check into that. Thanks Grant.

 

Actually, several people have pointed out that CTA in particular has a number of problems that weren't on the original LP.

And, besides, since when was matching the original LP the end all and be all of mastering? Original LPs of CSN&Y's Deja Vu sound like crap, yet re-pressings sound much better. Should a CD reissue sound like the original (ie, crap) simply because that's how the original sounded?

 

Given that the Chicago remasters were just released yesterday, and most people haven't heard them, the responses here are telling. It seems that there is increasingly a knee jerk reaction against remasters without even considering their true quality. How can you say you prefer the Lp or old stock copies of these CDs over these remasters if you haven't even heard them yet?

 

Well, I never said that was the end all and be all of mastering. I just stated that it's what some people believe.

And, I STILL like Rhino's Chicago II.

 

Very good point! Steve says SOME older CDs sound better and this board blows it all out of proportion!

 

Gary, I do understand. It's funny, though, the new best of and the remasters are from the same digital masters, but the new best of seems to sound a bit less compressed compared to the individual titles.

You must be be one of those people prone to headaches, because I don't find the compression severe enough to affect me physically, like stuff from Erik Labison.

 

Well, I should rephrase that last part: I am not usually physically affected by compression except for things remastered by Erik Labson, or others whom I consider to be very heavy-handed with the maximization. Even then, I don't get headaches. I get earaches and fatigued, though.

I guess we all have our different tolorances. I can tolerate -2db, maybe a -3db increase in digital compression. After that, I can't listen. It's a shame, because the new Santana album smokes! But, it's compressed to hell!

 

No, Grant, we know not EVERYONE here thinks alike. We have you! to remind us of that.
What I meant by that post was that after the first few remastering debacles I'm very, very skittish about running out and buying these just because they're out. And Luke has a good point, and it's one I made in another thread about Tull's STAND UP MFSL: so it sounds 'like' the original vinyl? Well, the original vinyl's sound didn't impress me at all, then or now; that the MFSL was better, at the time, than any other CD mastering out there should hardly accord it 'great' or 'definitive' status. What I had hoped for, at the time, was something that would take the proverbial blanket off the sound, much as later Hendrix remasters did for his catalog.
As for the notion of a 'kneejerk' reaction, some people can't take a joke. I got the impression from the title of your thread that you hadn't picked them up yet, and were waiting for some first impressions before taking the plunge. Same here; I've been burned enough times to know better; after sampling a few of these, damn straight I will wait.

ED

 

That has nothing to do with this discussion. I've got the remasters of the first two albums. I think they suck. End of story. It has nothing to do with Steve saying older CDs are better.

 

For the record, I was talking about CTA and II, which is what I believe Grant was alluding to as well. I have not heard the newest CDs, nor do I claim to make a judgment on them.

 

I've listened to all the remasters in this series numerous times. I also had very high hopes for these Tery Kath era remasters and I can't say that I am completely disappointed with them. I have my complaints, most of them have been discussed over and over again. I listened to VIII most of the weekend and it is my favorite, along with III, of the series. I also like VBO quite a bit. Two of the bonus tracks on VIII, "Sixth Sense" and "Bright Eyes" sound like finished songs to me, they could have been included on the original release and not been considered filler. "Sixth Sense" is a horn dominated instrumental that Terry Kath just cuts loose on. He is playing a ripping lead guitar solo as the song fades to a close. "Bright Eyes" is a mid tempo Robert Lamm number that features keyboard, guitar, monster bass by Cetera, and drums. The band are playing off each other beautifully as the song ends with a fade. Those fades can be rough when you aren't wanting either song to end. The count in to "Ain't It Blue" has been deleted, hard to understand why, but it is no longer there. I listened to VIII all weekend and didn't notice it, until someone else brought it to my attention. I never listened to VIII much while growing up and only had the vinyl version till this came out. The songs and performances have held up well over the years as I like the album better now.

VII doesn't seem to be as big an improvement sound wise, or appeal wise. Percussion is nice sounding though . The false start at the beginning of "Happy Man" has been deleted. Hang on to those copies of the Group Portrait" box set. The bonus track is great though. Nuff said.

 

Well, after 17 posts, Bill finally posts the first actual response to Grant's post! I have to say that I HATE it when the labels tamper with the original master recordings in their reissues. Why delete the false start at the beginning of Happy Man, or the count in to Ain't It Blue? Next, artists will start deleting drum and bass parts from their recordings for the reissues! Wait a minute, Ozzy already did that...

 

Ozzy commited "The Ultimate Sin."

 

Yeah, he should be Oz-tracised!

 

What you said, man! What you said!

ED

 

Hold on! The word out is that this was a rights matter, and had nothing to do with Ozzy replacing those parts because he wanted to, or had a problem with the performances. If anybody has reliable info on the situation don't be afraid to send it along, but this has nothing to do with the issue at hand here, which is the quality of the Chicago redos. This belongs with the thread where we lit into the late Mr. Zappa for the self-
destruction of a catalog the integrity of whichhe should have taken pains to preserve, even if he had the option to do with it what he pleased(and he did, to our regret).
As for countoffs and other little things missing, that's for another thread, too. There are many mistakes made with things like that, from Chris Montez' "Let's Dance" and Tony Joe White's "Polk Salad Annie" through the clipped intro of Zep's "Immigrant Song" on the box set, and on and on...
I just want to know how the new Chicago discs sound.

ED

 

Oh, c'mon, Ed, this thread's been crapped on from the get-go. Don't start reining us in now!